My best friend pays for his own health insurance, and his provider just raised his monthly premium by 40% because of the new health care bill. I work for an large employer, so they pay it, but this totally sucks for people who must buy it themselves. So thanks to Obama and forcing health care on everyone, the large insurance firms just taxes everyone else to balance it out. How is this helping out small businesses? He should have focused his energy on making jobs, but he probably killed a ton of jobs by forcing firms to pay more for insurance. Without the Census count this year, the unemployment rate would have looked more horrendous then it was. Obama failed miserably.
The health care changes are good if you’re a poor person. That’s what it’s always been about.
Health care has absolutely nothing to do with the destruction of American jobs. It doesn’t matter what the cost to insure workers is when the difference to manufacture a product is as stark as $5 vs. $0.25. There are 2 ways out of this mess for the US: Protectionism, or war…choose your poison
db_4life Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Health care has absolutely nothing to do with the > destruction of American jobs. It doesn’t matter > what the cost to insure workers is when the > difference to manufacture a product is as stark as > $5 vs. $0.25. There are 2 ways out of this mess > for the US: Protectionism, or war…choose your > poison Wait, you don’t think that increasing healthcare costs increases the cost of production for U.S.-based firms? There are lots of companies that have product lines, if not entire businesses, based around beating the cost of Chinese production due to distribution or manufacturing synergies that cannot be achieved through overseas production (for example, highly automated manufacturing has a chance vs. more labor intensive Chinese production, in some cases). The increased cost of the healthcare bill no doubt eliminated the viability of some of these businesses, which will in turn eliminate some American jobs. So not only did healthcare not create jobs (which clearly should have been the number one directive of the any initiatives the President focused on), but it actually killed jobs.
db_4life Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Health care has absolutely nothing to do with the > destruction of American jobs. It doesn’t matter > what the cost to insure workers is when the > difference to manufacture a product is as stark as > $5 vs. $0.25. There are 2 ways out of this mess > for the US: Protectionism, or war…choose your > poison Wrong. I don’t care what industry you are talking about. Increased cost to the firm WILL have some impact on corporate spending. And even if you work for an employer and they pay for it, it’s possible the cost of healthcare simply passes on to workers from lower raises or lower salaries. It’s another tax that forces transfer of wealth. My friend doesn’t even make 6 figures, so it’s really hurting middle class as well.
I think you guys are missing my point. I’m not saying increased costs in HC will not affect cost of production. What I am saying is that there are much larger things to worry about. US was a mess long before health care reform, and if ppl continue to want to be distracted from the real issues might as well save yourself some trouble and start learning Chinese. While corporate spending by US firms is down in the US, corporate spending by US firms is keeping China’s GDP growth at 10+%
That’s like saying it’s fine to infect ourselves with syphilis, since we’ve already got diabetes anyway.
No…It’s like saying: “Hey! You have Cancer. WTF are you doing worrying about a bruised toe?”
So it’s ok to punch cancer patients in the face? Sweet! (goes to hospital)
ohai Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So it’s ok to punch cancer patients in the face? > Sweet! (goes to hospital) Yes absolutely! But only in the event that they were bitching and moaning not to approve health care reform, but are now reaping the benefits of it becoming law.
db_4life Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > US was a mess > long before health care reform, and if ppl > continue to want to be distracted from the real > issues might as well save yourself some trouble > and start learning Chinese. While corporate > spending by US firms is down in the US, corporate > spending by US firms is keeping China’s GDP growth > at 10+% Distracted from the real issues?? The real issue is jobs. Forcing more costs hurts exactly that
By the U6 measure of employment the US has been F’d for many years now… Anybody w/ a brain and a pair of balls could increase the employment by simply confronting the problem. Reagan would have never sat by and allowed US dollars to build up a communist regime. If the Chinese don’t want to play ball by fairly valuing their currency then you tax the $hit out of anything coming from there…that will create jobs. I don’t object to a debate on HC, what I do object to is the fact that everyone is passing up much more important issues… Typical US tactic: healthcare = socialism blah blah blah… If it were up to me China would be choking on T-Bonds, and the employment picture would improve dramatically virtually overnight… Face it – until that day the Chinese own the US. Our Grandparents would having been turning over cars in the street… we are pu$$ies
When will people stop calling this health care reform and call it what it is? Health INSURANCE reform. This annoys the crap out of me.
recycler Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > When will people stop calling this health care > reform and call it what it is? Health INSURANCE > reform. This annoys the crap out of me. It’s not really any reform. It’s basically just another tax at the end of the day. Instead of 34 million people in the US without health care insurance, now it’s projected to be only 24 million. [Got those numbers from an article, need to find it…] m
It is definitely another kind of tax. However, that doesn’t mean it’s not a health insurance policy. The government’s main tool for controlling our behavior is taxing people who behave differently. For instance, if they don’t want factories to pollute the air, they introduce carbon taxes. Or if they want people to buy new cars (Cash for Clunkers), they provide tax incentives for people who buy new cars. With Obama Care, they are taxing people who don’t have insurance to encourage them to get insurance. This is basically how they will reduce the number of uninsured people. Though as you said, there will still be some uninsured people - just fewer. And of course, they will indirectly tax everyone else through higher insurance premiums, but that’s another issue.
It is definitely another kind of tax. However, that doesn’t mean it’s not a health insurance policy. The government’s main tool for controlling our behavior is taxing people who behave differently. For instance, if they don’t want factories to pollute the air, they introduce carbon taxes. Or if they want people to buy new cars (Cash for Clunkers), they provide tax incentives for people who buy new cars. With Obama Care, they are taxing people who don’t have insurance to encourage them to get insurance. This is basically how they will reduce the number of uninsured people. Though as you said, there will still be some uninsured people - just fewer. And of course, they will indirectly tax everyone else through higher insurance premiums, but that’s another issue.
mep_cfa’10 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > recycler Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > When will people stop calling this health care > > reform and call it what it is? Health INSURANCE > > reform. This annoys the crap out of me. > > It’s not really any reform. It’s basically just > another tax at the end of the day. Instead of 34 > million people in the US without health care > insurance, now it’s projected to be only 24 > million. > > m Either way, the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act and the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act have little to do with the ways in which medical treatment is delivered. It’s about how we pay for health care. It’s about regulating insurers and reforming our tax policy. The distinction is more than just semantics.