I know there are some posters on this forum who are current students at top business schools and am very interested in hearing their thoughts on this. From various secondhand sources I’ve heard, at programs like wharton/booth/columbia, hiring has picked up drastically amongst the top hedge funds and investment management firms. Still not as good as 2005-2007 but pretty strong nonetheless. It seems like if you want to work at a place like citadel/PIMCO/fidelity/wellington/MFS/putnam/SAC, etc., going to a top 5 MBA program is your best bet.
ksc1940 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > It seems like if you want to work at > a place like PIMCO/fidelity/wellington/MFS/putnam/SAC, > etc., going to a top 5 MBA program is your best > bet. fixed
I guess… But “best bet” is also relative. Even if you go to a really great business school, you have to be pretty good among your peers to get a job at Goldman Sachs or comparable places.
ohai Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I guess… But “best bet” is also relative. Even > if you go to a really great business school, you > have to be pretty good among your peers to get a > job at Goldman Sachs or comparable places. This means that for someone who did not go to those TOP business schools, the odds of getting into Goldman is just stacked to where it is touch the moon. But if I knew I was smart enough to get into top business schools, I think I would do that instead of studying for this.
I might also add that even if top business schools can open some nice doors, business school is not for everyone.
while i think going to a top school helps, the cream will always rise to the top.
A lot of these HFs do not have formal hiring programs. Recruiting is done through professors or networking so assuming that going to a top MBA will give you automatic interviews or even applications to these companies is, in my opinion, wrong.
Why would a top HF hire someone straight out of business school?
Yeah good luck getting into SAC even out of HBS. Your competition will be stiff even if you can get an interview. If you want to work in HF you should cast a wider net.
I doubt that citadel would even hire out of MBA programs. They are quantitatively oriented.
pennyless Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I doubt that citadel would even hire out of MBA > programs. They are quantitatively oriented. This actually isn’t true. First, “quantitative” is a very relative term; in fact, Citadel is a multi-strategy firm and a fair number of their strategies are actually fundamentally-driven. Anyway, Citadel does hire out of MBA programs – about half a dozen of my classmates got internship offers this year, and they’re actually still hiring.
To respond to the poster’s original question – as a first-year MBA student right now, I can say that hiring has picked up, but the buy-side is always a tough industry to crack. Certainly, I’d say that if you can get into one of the top investment management firms without an MBA, then by all means go for it. I can appreciate that some people think you shouldn’t go to business school because it supposedly takes you out of the markets, i.e. being in school means you can’t focus on the markets 60-70 hours a week like you would in a normal job. However, the other side of the coin – and what I’m seeing right now – is that there is a strong contingent of avid investors at every top school, so even if we don’t live and breathe finance, there are a number of ways we can collaborate with classmates to share investment ideas. Secondly, there are distinguished guest speakers and experienced investors that come to campus often to give talks, ensuring that we’re not totally disconnected from the real world. Thirdly, depending on what fund you speak with, it’s not all just about analysis and spreadsheets – a big part of succeeding on the buy-side has to do with how you manage relationships, how you read and assess management teams, and other “softer skills” that you can learn in business school. And lastly, all the firms you mentioned have a strong contingent of MBA hires, who may have a proclivity to hire from their own kind. Long story short, if you’re asking about whether you’re at an advantage for buy-side recruiting having an MBA versus not having an MBA, the truth is that it really depends on the firm. Different firms have different philosophies, and the buy-side is a tough industry to crack. At the same time, it’s also very fragmented so I generally believe that there will always be a fund somewhere that’s hiring for someone, because it’s just a matter of finding the right fit. In my case, being in business school has definitely helped me – I’m interviewing with hedge funds now, but this is only after I took three years off from public investing to work in private equity so a lot of the contacts I had originally on the sell-side are people I haven’t kept in touch with that much lately. Luckily, I find that business school alumni are very helpful, and I have been able to set up informational calls and interviews typically within a week of my initiating contact.
Insightful post, numi.
Numi - aren’t you extremely late in the game for summer internships? Our MBA intern class was selected about two months ago (though I do not work in a hedge fund). Also, peeps talk about the buy side as if there is one role. OP, which roles are attractive to you? Portfolio management? Client management? Quant? Hybrid? There are lots of different roles on the buyside that MBAs are hired to fill.
numi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > pennyless Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I doubt that citadel would even hire out of MBA > > programs. They are quantitatively oriented. > > This actually isn’t true. First, “quantitative” is > a very relative term; in fact, Citadel is a > multi-strategy firm and a fair number of their > strategies are actually fundamentally-driven. > Anyway, Citadel does hire out of MBA programs – > about half a dozen of my classmates got internship > offers this year, and they’re actually still > hiring. There’s a big difference between the classic asset management side of Citadel, and Citadel Securities, the bank that somehow hasn’t failed yet.
LBriscoe Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why would a top HF hire someone straight out of > business school? because the PM went to the same business school. at least that’s been my experience. PM’s try to hire their own. Also, MBA’s generally have 3-6 years of work exp before school, so it’s not like the PM is hiring someone really raw.
Danny Boy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Numi - aren’t you extremely late in the game for > summer internships? Our MBA intern class was > selected about two months ago (though I do not > work in a hedge fund). I got a bit of a late start on the buy-side recruiting process since I had thought at the start of recruiting that I wanted to do consulting or business development at a large corporation. So, I ended up interviewing for those roles, got several offers but eventually realized that I was more excited about investing than anything else. As an example, I’d be sitting in the interview rooms and people would ask me stuff like how I might expand into a new market, how I would propose to take costs out of a system, etc. but all I was really thinking to myself was whether or not I’d invest in that company. I did miss out on some of the larger buy-side firms, but I’m primarily interested in long-short equity and market neutral funds, as opposed to traditional mutual funds or long-only firms. It matches more closely with my investment approach as well as my risk/reward preferences. Much of hedge fund recruiting is just starting now as they might not have structured intern programs, and/or it’s only around this time (or later) that they’re really thinking about their summer intern needs.
Yeah, recruiting can be pretty disorganized. I called some random guy at a reputable small-ish firm once to inquire about summer positions. He was like “Yeah… good question. I’m actually the guy who is supposed to be organizing this… uuuhhh…”. I would not be surprised if many places don’t have everything in order yet.
numi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Danny Boy Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Numi - aren’t you extremely late in the game > for > > summer internships? Our MBA intern class was > > selected about two months ago (though I do not > > work in a hedge fund). > > I got a bit of a late start on the buy-side > recruiting process since I had thought at the > start of recruiting that I wanted to do consulting > or business development at a large corporation. > So, I ended up interviewing for those roles, got > several offers but eventually realized that I was > more excited about investing than anything else. > As an example, I’d be sitting in the interview > rooms and people would ask me stuff like how I > might expand into a new market, how I would > propose to take costs out of a system, etc. but > all I was really thinking to myself was whether or > not I’d invest in that company. > > I did miss out on some of the larger buy-side > firms, but I’m primarily interested in long-short > equity and market neutral funds, as opposed to > traditional mutual funds or long-only firms. It > matches more closely with my investment approach > as well as my risk/reward preferences. Much of > hedge fund recruiting is just starting now as they > might not have structured intern programs, and/or > it’s only around this time (or later) that they’re > really thinking about their summer intern needs. Buyside recruiting is always after sell-side and consulting. Usually happens in the february-april timeframe. Numi, I’m guessing the large IM firms like PIMCO, fidelity, wellington, etc., are done with recruiting at your school? Which big name hedge funds are currently interviewing at your school?
Which school do you go to? If you don’t mind.