Most of these folks (students) have already worked abroad at senior level job and are not freshers
justin88 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well, if you read the articles the guy posted, they describe the big packages as “record breaking” and that only a few people got them. Also, keep in mind that many business school graduates already have strong earnings histories or are very well connected (particularly in India). In other words, these packages are not representative of the population.
Yes, you are right, these are creme de la creme, and I don’t think more then 10% get 100k+, but I banks only consider creme de la creme. Average domestic package as I said gets screwed because of salaries in other areas plus domestic package doesn’t includes positions offered outside India, I won’t be surprised if average in Marketing is USD 20k. Even few finance grads gets around 30k, but it’s the I banks which offer high salaries and IB/PE/ER jobs are just 10-20% of total. I just wanted to show to aquabu that I banking is insanely competitive in India because Indian market is very small so jobs are so less and people are so many. To take top talent, they pay high salaries, and without a good MBA there’s is just no chance of getting into Indian IB/PE if you have engineering degree. The whole point is to show competition.
The reason Indian market is very small is because the stock market is run by the mafia. Insider trading is rampant and no oversight.
This will be a bit of a rant on India… but 4 years working here now - Speaking from the FDI Perspective Here - Not speaking about Indian Shops. For an Indian Shop my advice would be to be the son of the owner or the son of a cabinet minister. First off let’s talk CFA. I would say that I’m just less impressed with Indian CFA Candidates because I think the CFA is not a huge departure from your typical schooling - lots of lots of memorization, formulas, and passing big rediculous tests in high percentiles. I already know you guys can pass the CFA. Everyone in India I know is taking the CFA, my Company Secretary just enrolled for level 1, hoping to become an Ibanker. So I doubt it will differentiate you much more than the alleged, “MBA” you probably already have, which stands for, “Means Bugger All.” For westerners the CFA is really difficult because we are lazy and useless when it comes to things like memorization. We do very little of it. Our schools don’t expect people to retain massive amounts of information but usually just know how to research it, find it, and analyze it. For that reason the demands of the CFA are actually quite difficult for us as they are well out of our comfort zone. We’re also not taught to be patient about this process which makes going through 3 levels of rigorous and dense testing a real departure. I have an English buddy who is a trader that never got passed level 1 and makes 2 crores a year. He’s hiring Indians with CFA Charters and paying them 4-6 lakhs a year to do bitch work. The MBA and CFA just won’t make you stand out. It’s drive, initiative, creativity, loyalty, and social graces that would make you stand out. This is really the only gap I still see between Indians and Westerners. It get’s smaller day by day. I’ve seen huge progress in 4 years. If you can, find an expat fin manager working in Mumbai and prove that you’re not lazy, selfish and directionless - take any job that get’s your foot in the door so long as you are in a position to demonstrate a value add (don’t worry about perks or how many lakhs, that’ll come with time if you add value). If you don’t add value… it’s a dead end. Start doing research if that’s what you want to do. Actually write some research, don’t just copy and paste it. Try and get it published. If you’re an IT guy write some research on what you learned there. This will help demonstrate that you are a self-starter with the ability to think outside of the box and get things done for the good of the team even when it’s not directly benifitting you, or even without being explicitly asked to do something. I love it when someone takes initiative to sort a problem out. Be humble. Other than that, social graces are usually a huge problem and that’s what frequently separates most hardworking middle-class Indians from their spoiled brat rich counterparts educated in the west. My trader buddy spends all day dealing with clients, takes them out, wines them and dines them. Can’t trust that to someone that isn’t cool to hang out with. I have an Indian friend here who runs an “ibanking school” to help you land a job in Ibanking, and 2/3rds of his program is just about getting people to not look like they came into work on the the train with their tiffin. So what to do? Get some decent clothes (nothing with rediculous stripes or patterns), wear underarm deodorant, smile more, smooze, stop being such a nerd. Get a haircut that costs more than 20 rupees - wear socks. Become one of the boys. But don’t overdue any of it. Learn how to act like someone who belongs in a western company. Don’t end sentences with “only,” or say “kindly do the needful.” Learn to communicate well, thoroughly, and in a western manner. You’ll fly up the ladder if you can do that. Way the f*ck faster than taking the CFA. I often hire dalits, smart ones, because they aren’t afraid to work. I really resent most (but not all) upperclass Indians to be honest, and their fancy western degrees as they frequently (but not always) feel they are above solving routine problems or doing grunt work. We had a rain leak the other day, not in my personal office, but in the main area and nobody bothered to do anything about it. Not because people were lazy, but because they didn’t see the benefit to themselves of making the effort and certainly weren’t going to be bothered to make the effort if no one else would. My best paid employee is a dalit from Khargar because he will literally take on any assignment I give him and sort it himself. Bottom line is that in the Indian version of the Nash Equlibrium, everyone always rats out the other guy by saying, “What’s in it for me?” From the perspective of westerners this is just unacceptable - learn to be a team player.
ohai Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Well, if you read the articles the guy posted, > they describe the big packages as “record > breaking” and that only a few people got them. > Also, keep in mind that many business school > graduates already have strong earnings histories > or are very well connected (particularly in > India). In other words, these packages are not > representative of the population. … and that’s why I called them outliers. I don’t understand your point here.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This will be a bit of a rant on India… but 4 > years working here now - Speaking from the FDI > Perspective Here - Not speaking about Indian > Shops. For an Indian Shop my advice would be to > be the son of the owner or the son of a cabinet > minister. > > First off let’s talk CFA. I would say that I’m > just less impressed with Indian CFA Candidates > because I think the CFA is not a huge departure > from your typical schooling - lots of lots of > memorization, formulas, and passing big rediculous > tests in high percentiles. I already know you > guys can pass the CFA. Everyone in India I know > is taking the CFA, my Company Secretary just > enrolled for level 1, hoping to become an Ibanker. > So I doubt it will differentiate you much more > than the alleged, “MBA” you probably already have, > which stands for, “Means Bugger All.” > > For westerners the CFA is really difficult because > we are lazy and useless when it comes to things > like memorization. We do very little of it. Our > schools don’t expect people to retain massive > amounts of information but usually just know how > to research it, find it, and analyze it. For that > reason the demands of the CFA are actually quite > difficult for us as they are well out of our > comfort zone. We’re also not taught to be patient > about this process which makes going through 3 > levels of rigorous and dense testing a real > departure. > > I have an English buddy who is a trader that never > got passed level 1 and makes 2 crores a year. > He’s hiring Indians with CFA Charters and paying > them 4-6 lakhs a year to do bitch work. The MBA > and CFA just won’t make you stand out. > > It’s drive, initiative, creativity, loyalty, and > social graces that would make you stand out. This > is really the only gap I still see between Indians > and Westerners. It get’s smaller day by day. > I’ve seen huge progress in 4 years. > > If you can, find an expat fin manager working in > Mumbai and prove that you’re not lazy, selfish and > directionless - take any job that get’s your foot > in the door so long as you are in a position to > demonstrate a value add (don’t worry about perks > or how many lakhs, that’ll come with time if you > add value). If you don’t add value… it’s a dead > end. > > Start doing research if that’s what you want to > do. Actually write some research, don’t just copy > and paste it. Try and get it published. If > you’re an IT guy write some research on what you > learned there. > > This will help demonstrate that you are a > self-starter with the ability to think outside of > the box and get things done for the good of the > team even when it’s not directly benifitting you, > or even without being explicitly asked to do > something. I love it when someone takes > initiative to sort a problem out. Be humble. > > Other than that, social graces are usually a huge > problem and that’s what frequently separates most > hardworking middle-class Indians from their > spoiled brat rich counterparts educated in the > west. My trader buddy spends all day dealing with > clients, takes them out, wines them and dines > them. Can’t trust that to someone that isn’t cool > to hang out with. I have an Indian friend here > who runs an “ibanking school” to help you land a > job in Ibanking, and 2/3rds of his program is just > about getting people to not look like they came > into work on the the train with their tiffin. > > So what to do? Get some decent clothes (nothing > with rediculous stripes or patterns), wear > underarm deodorant, smile more, smooze, stop being > such a nerd. Get a haircut that costs more than > 20 rupees - wear socks. Become one of the boys. > But don’t overdue any of it. Learn how to act > like someone who belongs in a western company. > Don’t end sentences with “only,” or say “kindly do > the needful.” Learn to communicate well, > thoroughly, and in a western manner. You’ll fly > up the ladder if you can do that. Way the f*ck > faster than taking the CFA. > > I often hire dalits, smart ones, because they > aren’t afraid to work. I really resent most (but > not all) upperclass Indians to be honest, and > their fancy western degrees as they frequently > (but not always) feel they are above solving > routine problems or doing grunt work. We had a > rain leak the other day, not in my personal > office, but in the main area and nobody bothered > to do anything about it. Not because people were > lazy, but because they didn’t see the benefit to > themselves of making the effort and certainly > weren’t going to be bothered to make the effort if > no one else would. My best paid employee is a > dalit from Khargar because he will literally take > on any assignment I give him and sort it himself. > > Bottom line is that in the Indian version of the > Nash Equlibrium, everyone always rats out the > other guy by saying, “What’s in it for me?” From > the perspective of westerners this is just > unacceptable - learn to be a team player. This post is full of stereotypes.
d0pa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > justin88 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > d0pa Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > (ENAM and JP Morgan India pays more then USD > > > 250,000 (including bonus) to fresh IIMA and > > IIMC > > > grads, so you can guess that competition is > > really > > > cut throat here.) > > > > > > > > There’s no way this is correct. > > Why? > Top Indian colleges might not rank in top univ > rankings in world, but they are very good at > placing their students at very high paying > positions in finance. > > Indian I bank’s salaries are not highest salaries > that’s why they are not reported in newspapers, > also more then 50% of their package is bonus. > > See these links: > > http://www.siliconindia.com/shownews/Deutsche_offe > rs_Rs144_Crore_at_IIMA_placements_-nid-65642.html > > 1.44 crore Indian rupees = 312 292.8 U.S. dollars > > http://www.indiaedunews.net/IIM/IIM_Calcutta_gradu > ate_gets_1.6_crore_package_10902/ > > 1.6 crore Indian rupees = 346 992 U.S. dollars > > These are highest salaries, but average salaries > in finance from these colleges are awesome too. > Their average salaries take a hit because salaries > are generally pathetic in all areas except > finance. But if you want finance, it’s awesome, > specially when this education is coming for total > expense of just USD 30-40k (Thanks to heavy govt. > subsidy). That’s a negative good buddy: “Following the article in Economic Times dated 22nd February 2010 mentioning that an offer in excess of Rs. 1.44 Crores has been made by a firm, we would like to clarify in interest of the entire community that this is incorrect. Also, converting dollar salaries to rupee terms does not portray the correct picture and hence we provide the average dollar salary separately in our press releases.” http://hochpoch-ppd.blogspot.com/2010/02/dont-trust-inr-144-crore.html
marcus phoenix Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ChickenTikka Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > This will be a bit of a rant on India… but 4 > > years working here now - Speaking from the FDI > > Perspective Here - Not speaking about Indian > > Shops. For an Indian Shop my advice would be > to > > be the son of the owner or the son of a cabinet > > minister. > > > > First off let’s talk CFA. I would say that I’m > > just less impressed with Indian CFA Candidates > > because I think the CFA is not a huge departure > > from your typical schooling - lots of lots of > > memorization, formulas, and passing big > rediculous > > tests in high percentiles. I already know you > > guys can pass the CFA. Everyone in India I > know > > is taking the CFA, my Company Secretary just > > enrolled for level 1, hoping to become an > Ibanker. > > So I doubt it will differentiate you much more > > than the alleged, “MBA” you probably already > have, > > which stands for, “Means Bugger All.” > > > > For westerners the CFA is really difficult > because > > we are lazy and useless when it comes to things > > like memorization. We do very little of it. > Our > > schools don’t expect people to retain massive > > amounts of information but usually just know > how > > to research it, find it, and analyze it. For > that > > reason the demands of the CFA are actually > quite > > difficult for us as they are well out of our > > comfort zone. We’re also not taught to be > patient > > about this process which makes going through 3 > > levels of rigorous and dense testing a real > > departure. > > > > I have an English buddy who is a trader that > never > > got passed level 1 and makes 2 crores a year. > > He’s hiring Indians with CFA Charters and > paying > > them 4-6 lakhs a year to do bitch work. The > MBA > > and CFA just won’t make you stand out. > > > > It’s drive, initiative, creativity, loyalty, > and > > social graces that would make you stand out. > This > > is really the only gap I still see between > Indians > > and Westerners. It get’s smaller day by day. > > I’ve seen huge progress in 4 years. > > > > If you can, find an expat fin manager working > in > > Mumbai and prove that you’re not lazy, selfish > and > > directionless - take any job that get’s your > foot > > in the door so long as you are in a position to > > demonstrate a value add (don’t worry about > perks > > or how many lakhs, that’ll come with time if > you > > add value). If you don’t add value… it’s a > dead > > end. > > > > Start doing research if that’s what you want to > > do. Actually write some research, don’t just > copy > > and paste it. Try and get it published. If > > you’re an IT guy write some research on what > you > > learned there. > > > > This will help demonstrate that you are a > > self-starter with the ability to think outside > of > > the box and get things done for the good of the > > team even when it’s not directly benifitting > you, > > or even without being explicitly asked to do > > something. I love it when someone takes > > initiative to sort a problem out. Be humble. > > > > Other than that, social graces are usually a > huge > > problem and that’s what frequently separates > most > > hardworking middle-class Indians from their > > spoiled brat rich counterparts educated in the > > west. My trader buddy spends all day dealing > with > > clients, takes them out, wines them and dines > > them. Can’t trust that to someone that isn’t > cool > > to hang out with. I have an Indian friend here > > who runs an “ibanking school” to help you land > a > > job in Ibanking, and 2/3rds of his program is > just > > about getting people to not look like they came > > into work on the the train with their tiffin. > > > > So what to do? Get some decent clothes > (nothing > > with rediculous stripes or patterns), wear > > underarm deodorant, smile more, smooze, stop > being > > such a nerd. Get a haircut that costs more > than > > 20 rupees - wear socks. Become one of the boys. > > > But don’t overdue any of it. Learn how to act > > like someone who belongs in a western company. > > Don’t end sentences with “only,” or say “kindly > do > > the needful.” Learn to communicate well, > > thoroughly, and in a western manner. You’ll > fly > > up the ladder if you can do that. Way the f*ck > > faster than taking the CFA. > > > > I often hire dalits, smart ones, because they > > aren’t afraid to work. I really resent most > (but > > not all) upperclass Indians to be honest, and > > their fancy western degrees as they frequently > > (but not always) feel they are above solving > > routine problems or doing grunt work. We had a > > rain leak the other day, not in my personal > > office, but in the main area and nobody > bothered > > to do anything about it. Not because people > were > > lazy, but because they didn’t see the benefit > to > > themselves of making the effort and certainly > > weren’t going to be bothered to make the effort > if > > no one else would. My best paid employee is a > > dalit from Khargar because he will literally > take > > on any assignment I give him and sort it > himself. > > > > Bottom line is that in the Indian version of > the > > Nash Equlibrium, everyone always rats out the > > other guy by saying, “What’s in it for me?” > From > > the perspective of westerners this is just > > unacceptable - learn to be a team player. > > > This post is full of stereotypes. Absolutely - of course I can’t talk about specifics. But I’ve spent 4 years working in Mumbai hiring/firing people as a director of a PE investment. My friends are all senior expat managers, usually for multi-nationals, and this is the lonely frustrating problem we discuss every single time we talk about work. So take it for what it is worth. Yeah, an MBA and a CFA from a top Indian B-School might help or be a pre-req, but I don’t think it’s going to differentiate you from the other billion with the same game plan.
i’d imagine it would be hard for people here to make any accurate comments about how you would fare in India.
i’d imagine it would be hard for people here to make any accurate comments about how you would fare in India.
@E-Boogie: Dude, 300k is nowhere near average, and ENAM is the elitist of all I banks in India, their salary doesn’t represent whole community. But again, do IB salaries represent the whole college? NO or, do IB bankers hire an average student? NO IB gives top salaries, gets top students. Then, Why the f*ck you are equating I Banking salaries with general mass.
True, I am so glad that he didnt say “make sure you take a shower before you go to an interview.” ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > marcus phoenix Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > ChickenTikka Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > This will be a bit of a rant on India… but > 4 > > > years working here now - Speaking from the > FDI > > > Perspective Here - Not speaking about Indian > > > Shops. For an Indian Shop my advice would be > > to > > > be the son of the owner or the son of a > cabinet > > > minister. > > > > > > First off let’s talk CFA. I would say that > I’m > > > just less impressed with Indian CFA > Candidates > > > because I think the CFA is not a huge > departure > > > from your typical schooling - lots of lots of > > > memorization, formulas, and passing big > > rediculous > > > tests in high percentiles. I already know > you > > > guys can pass the CFA. Everyone in India I > > know > > > is taking the CFA, my Company Secretary just > > > enrolled for level 1, hoping to become an > > Ibanker. > > > So I doubt it will differentiate you much > more > > > than the alleged, “MBA” you probably already > > have, > > > which stands for, “Means Bugger All.” > > > > > > For westerners the CFA is really difficult > > because > > > we are lazy and useless when it comes to > things > > > like memorization. We do very little of it. > > Our > > > schools don’t expect people to retain massive > > > amounts of information but usually just know > > how > > > to research it, find it, and analyze it. For > > that > > > reason the demands of the CFA are actually > > quite > > > difficult for us as they are well out of our > > > comfort zone. We’re also not taught to be > > patient > > > about this process which makes going through > 3 > > > levels of rigorous and dense testing a real > > > departure. > > > > > > I have an English buddy who is a trader that > > never > > > got passed level 1 and makes 2 crores a year. > > > > He’s hiring Indians with CFA Charters and > > paying > > > them 4-6 lakhs a year to do bitch work. The > > MBA > > > and CFA just won’t make you stand out. > > > > > > It’s drive, initiative, creativity, loyalty, > > and > > > social graces that would make you stand out. > > This > > > is really the only gap I still see between > > Indians > > > and Westerners. It get’s smaller day by day. > > > > I’ve seen huge progress in 4 years. > > > > > > If you can, find an expat fin manager working > > in > > > Mumbai and prove that you’re not lazy, > selfish > > and > > > directionless - take any job that get’s your > > foot > > > in the door so long as you are in a position > to > > > demonstrate a value add (don’t worry about > > perks > > > or how many lakhs, that’ll come with time if > > you > > > add value). If you don’t add value… it’s a > > dead > > > end. > > > > > > Start doing research if that’s what you want > to > > > do. Actually write some research, don’t just > > copy > > > and paste it. Try and get it published. If > > > you’re an IT guy write some research on what > > you > > > learned there. > > > > > > This will help demonstrate that you are a > > > self-starter with the ability to think > outside > > of > > > the box and get things done for the good of > the > > > team even when it’s not directly benifitting > > you, > > > or even without being explicitly asked to do > > > something. I love it when someone takes > > > initiative to sort a problem out. Be humble. > > > > > > > Other than that, social graces are usually a > > huge > > > problem and that’s what frequently separates > > most > > > hardworking middle-class Indians from their > > > spoiled brat rich counterparts educated in > the > > > west. My trader buddy spends all day dealing > > with > > > clients, takes them out, wines them and dines > > > them. Can’t trust that to someone that isn’t > > cool > > > to hang out with. I have an Indian friend > here > > > who runs an “ibanking school” to help you > land > > a > > > job in Ibanking, and 2/3rds of his program is > > just > > > about getting people to not look like they > came > > > into work on the the train with their tiffin. > > > > > > > So what to do? Get some decent clothes > > (nothing > > > with rediculous stripes or patterns), wear > > > underarm deodorant, smile more, smooze, stop > > being > > > such a nerd. Get a haircut that costs more > > than > > > 20 rupees - wear socks. Become one of the > boys. > > > > > But don’t overdue any of it. Learn how to > act > > > like someone who belongs in a western company. > > > > Don’t end sentences with “only,” or say > “kindly > > do > > > the needful.” Learn to communicate well, > > > thoroughly, and in a western manner. You’ll > > fly > > > up the ladder if you can do that. Way the > f*ck > > > faster than taking the CFA. > > > > > > I often hire dalits, smart ones, because they > > > aren’t afraid to work. I really resent most > > (but > > > not all) upperclass Indians to be honest, and > > > their fancy western degrees as they > frequently > > > (but not always) feel they are above solving > > > routine problems or doing grunt work. We had > a > > > rain leak the other day, not in my personal > > > office, but in the main area and nobody > > bothered > > > to do anything about it. Not because people > > were > > > lazy, but because they didn’t see the benefit > > to > > > themselves of making the effort and certainly > > > weren’t going to be bothered to make the > effort > > if > > > no one else would. My best paid employee is > a > > > dalit from Khargar because he will literally > > take > > > on any assignment I give him and sort it > > himself. > > > > > > Bottom line is that in the Indian version of > > the > > > Nash Equlibrium, everyone always rats out the > > > other guy by saying, “What’s in it for me?” > > From > > > the perspective of westerners this is just > > > unacceptable - learn to be a team player. > > > > > > This post is full of stereotypes. > > > Absolutely - of course I can’t talk about > specifics. But I’ve spent 4 years working in > Mumbai hiring/firing people as a director of a PE > investment. My friends are all senior expat > managers, usually for multi-nationals, and this is > the lonely frustrating problem we discuss every > single time we talk about work. So take it for > what it is worth. > > Yeah, an MBA and a CFA from a top Indian B-School > might help or be a pre-req, but I don’t think it’s > going to differentiate you from the other billion > with the same game plan.
why am I posting everything twice.
Not sure I fully understand the implication, Izen, but I’ll try and answer. Short answer, if I tried this traditional route I’d be buried. Respect to the Indian middle-class. India is fierce. You got a lot of competition for a very limited amount of real estate in good jobs. Anyone with the balls to show up and try and make it work for them here has my respect - but I would say there are easier ways. I would not have been able to work in this system. I was a lousy student. Not a math genius. Lazy when it came to homework. I’d never hire myself for a research position. I wouldn’t accept one. I’m entrepreneurial by nature, and that is what has allowed me the small modicum of success that I have had. My reasons for taking the CFA are not to get a traditional job in an iBanking setting as an analyst, but more to a) teach me to focus b) teach me follow through c) give me some business background to supplement my liberal arts education d) challenge myself. My strengths are completely opposite of what the CFA is all about - which is why I decided to give it a try to work on my weaknesses. India is full of successful entrepreneurial types - I’d call it the most entrepreneurial nation I’ve ever been to. I routinely meet RE developers with very little education that handle multi-million dollar deals for breakfast. I admire these guys. They generally have good soft skills - not so much quant. They know how to promote things, they know how to pick the right people to do their work for them, they know how to lead. P.S. I love India, living here, working with, and interacting with Indians. They’ve taught me a lot, and this country has given me insight and opened my eyes in so many ways (especially things unrelated to CFA).
> Yeah, an MBA and a CFA from a top Indian B-School > might help or be a pre-req, but I don’t think it’s > going to differentiate you from the other billion > with the same game plan. Why else people migrate to US/UK where opportunities are more! This is general problem with India, there is no lack of talent but there is dearth of opportunity. So many people & so less opportunities, that’s for sure very accurate.
d0pa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > Yeah, an MBA and a CFA from a top Indian > B-School > > might help or be a pre-req, but I don’t think > it’s > > going to differentiate you from the other > billion > > with the same game plan. > > Why else people migrate to US/UK where > opportunities are more! > > This is general problem with India, there is no > lack of talent but there is dearth of opportunity. > > So many people & so less opportunities, that’s for > sure very accurate. Exactly, that’s why, unless you are given it all by your parents, you should go where you can actually differentiate yourself in my opinion. Especially in today’s global age. I had to move to emerging markets to really be useful. My talent is needed in BRIC countries, much less so in the USA. I’d say to any Indian if you can go overseas do it. Your talent is needed there and will be better compensated. Here it’ll probably just be exploited by whatever Mom and Pop firm you work for until the boss passes it off to his oldest son who will treat you like a dog. No thanks!
hehe, I was only joking. That was a very positive and informative post I forgot to add. I just jump on anything that is remotely politically incorrect. I havent been to India, so it might be very true what you said about being more presentable. But I did look at a small section of what you wrote and rolled my eyes. ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Not sure I fully understand the implication, Izen, > but I’ll try and answer. Short answer, if I tried > this traditional route I’d be buried. Respect to > the Indian middle-class. > > India is fierce. You got a lot of competition for > a very limited amount of real estate in good jobs. > Anyone with the balls to show up and try and make > it work for them here has my respect - but I would > say there are easier ways. I would not have been > able to work in this system. I was a lousy > student. Not a math genius. Lazy when it came to > homework. I’d never hire myself for a research > position. I wouldn’t accept one. > > I’m entrepreneurial by nature, and that is what > has allowed me the small modicum of success that I > have had. My reasons for taking the CFA are not > to get a traditional job in an iBanking setting as > an analyst, but more to a) teach me to focus b) > teach me follow through c) give me some business > background to supplement my liberal arts education > d) challenge myself. My strengths are completely > opposite of what the CFA is all about - which is > why I decided to give it a try to work on my > weaknesses. > > India is full of successful entrepreneurial types > - I’d call it the most entrepreneurial nation I’ve > ever been to. I routinely meet RE developers with > very little education that handle multi-million > dollar deals for breakfast. I admire these guys. > They generally have good soft skills - not so much > quant. They know how to promote things, they know > how to pick the right people to do their work for > them, they know how to lead. > > P.S. I love India, living here, working with, and > interacting with Indians. They’ve taught me a > lot, and this country has given me insight and > opened my eyes in so many ways (especially things > unrelated to CFA).
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > India is full of successful entrepreneurial types > - I’d call it the most entrepreneurial nation I’ve > ever been to. I routinely meet RE developers with > very little education that handle multi-million > dollar deals for breakfast. I admire these guys. > They generally have good soft skills - not so much > quant. They know how to promote things, they know > how to pick the right people to do their work for > them, they know how to lead. I always thought we have good quant skills and we suck at soft skills :O. But ya, people are entrepreneurial here, and if you have worked in PE here and met RE developers then I guess you know about dearth of credit and extent of use of Black money in Indian business. Highly educated people doesn’t take risk of running a business on black money, so most of millionaires you’ll meet here are people with very little education. That’s why Indian educated people are opening IT businesses like anything, because it’s the only (or best) business you can start without funding, and run without black money.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Exactly, that’s why, unless you are given it all > by your parents, you should go where you can > actually differentiate yourself in my opinion. > Especially in today’s global age. > > I had to move to emerging markets to really be > useful. My talent is needed in BRIC countries, > much less so in the USA. > > I’d say to any Indian if you can go overseas do > it. Your talent is needed there and will be > better compensated. Here it’ll probably just be > exploited by whatever Mom and Pop firm you work > for until the boss passes it off to his oldest son > who will treat you like a dog. No thanks! Yes, it’s actually very tempting to move outside the country, and it’s not even difficult in fact. With business, black money is such a mess that young educated people can’t lift themselves up totally with clean money. On the jobs, back office jobs are just pathetic. I am also planning to move to US/UK for some time to make money and then return back to India. Even if it sucks, home is home :)! Where did you lived in, Mumbai only?