It’s a different set of soft skills. Indians have just as many soft skills as anyone else. Without being too scandalous, I’d say that most business/politics, I use them interchangeably, is run Hawalla here. So if your theory is correct then most millionaires and politicians in India are uneducated crooks. But don’t despair. If in the Nash Equlibrium of Indian life everyone rats out the other guy, move to a place where someone might be gullible enough not to and then rat them out. Take a hint from Lakhsmi Mittal, move overseas, make your fortune there. The skills you’ve learned in India will be useful abroad. I can’t tell you how many successful Indians I know in virtually every country I’ve ever been to, it’s staggering. Simple skills like old fashioned promoting, negotiating, bartering, and saving are lost on us in the west and are damn powerful in business. And when you do get homesick and decide to come home (which you will) you will have developed a whole new set of skills (like the ones I have) to use on people here in India.
d0pa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ChickenTikka Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > Exactly, that’s why, unless you are given it > all > > by your parents, you should go where you can > > actually differentiate yourself in my opinion. > > Especially in today’s global age. > > > > I had to move to emerging markets to really be > > useful. My talent is needed in BRIC countries, > > much less so in the USA. > > > > I’d say to any Indian if you can go overseas do > > it. Your talent is needed there and will be > > better compensated. Here it’ll probably just > be > > exploited by whatever Mom and Pop firm you work > > for until the boss passes it off to his oldest > son > > who will treat you like a dog. No thanks! > > Yes, it’s actually very tempting to move outside > the country, and it’s not even difficult in fact. > With business, black money is such a mess that > young educated people can’t lift themselves up > totally with clean money. On the jobs, back office > jobs are just pathetic. > I am also planning to move to US/UK for some time > to make money and then return back to India. Even > if it sucks, home is home :)! > > Where did you lived in, Mumbai only? Good, it’ll be a great experience for you. Getting an Indian perspective has been wonderful for me and I’m sure the reverse will be for you too. Not wishing to offend any Shiv Seniks on the forum, but I live in “Bombay only.”
haha, I agree that negotiating, bartering and saving is in the blood. Bombay does sounds better actually, I wish someday it’s renamed back to Bombay, The good bay.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Without being too scandalous, I’d say that most > business/politics, I use them interchangeably, is > run Hawalla here. So if your theory is correct > then most millionaires and politicians in India > are uneducated crooks. Ya, it’s difficult to quantify the proportions. But I really don’t think that the reported GDP of India gives true economic picture of India, “Black Money Economy” or “Cash Economy” is huge, I would not be surprised if this parallel economy comes out to be worth trillions.
@ChickenTikka Well thanks for the elaborate reply. Even i plan to take up an IB/ER course in Mumbai and then take it from there. So it might be your friend’s institute i might be going to!! Also i am from the (resented) upperclass (not financially though); but yes i do work hard and i understand the value of money. About writing research reports, you are right, i have started reading few of them and plan to start writing one of them soon and maybe publish it somewhere. there are websites that let you provide stock recommendations and then you are rated based on your recommendation. Plan to do that too. So few things lined up to do. Lets see how things turn out. God be on my side 
Thanks again. ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This will be a bit of a rant on India… but 4 > years working here now - Speaking from the FDI > Perspective Here - Not speaking about Indian > Shops. For an Indian Shop my advice would be to > be the son of the owner or the son of a cabinet > minister. > > First off let’s talk CFA. I would say that I’m > just less impressed with Indian CFA Candidates > because I think the CFA is not a huge departure > from your typical schooling - lots of lots of > memorization, formulas, and passing big rediculous > tests in high percentiles. I already know you > guys can pass the CFA. Everyone in India I know > is taking the CFA, my Company Secretary just > enrolled for level 1, hoping to become an Ibanker. > So I doubt it will differentiate you much more > than the alleged, “MBA” you probably already have, > which stands for, “Means Bugger All.” > > For westerners the CFA is really difficult because > we are lazy and useless when it comes to things > like memorization. We do very little of it. Our > schools don’t expect people to retain massive > amounts of information but usually just know how > to research it, find it, and analyze it. For that > reason the demands of the CFA are actually quite > difficult for us as they are well out of our > comfort zone. We’re also not taught to be patient > about this process which makes going through 3 > levels of rigorous and dense testing a real > departure. > > I have an English buddy who is a trader that never > got passed level 1 and makes 2 crores a year. > He’s hiring Indians with CFA Charters and paying > them 4-6 lakhs a year to do bitch work. The MBA > and CFA just won’t make you stand out. > > It’s drive, initiative, creativity, loyalty, and > social graces that would make you stand out. This > is really the only gap I still see between Indians > and Westerners. It get’s smaller day by day. > I’ve seen huge progress in 4 years. > > If you can, find an expat fin manager working in > Mumbai and prove that you’re not lazy, selfish and > directionless - take any job that get’s your foot > in the door so long as you are in a position to > demonstrate a value add (don’t worry about perks > or how many lakhs, that’ll come with time if you > add value). If you don’t add value… it’s a dead > end. > > Start doing research if that’s what you want to > do. Actually write some research, don’t just copy > and paste it. Try and get it published. If > you’re an IT guy write some research on what you > learned there. > > This will help demonstrate that you are a > self-starter with the ability to think outside of > the box and get things done for the good of the > team even when it’s not directly benifitting you, > or even without being explicitly asked to do > something. I love it when someone takes > initiative to sort a problem out. Be humble. > > Other than that, social graces are usually a huge > problem and that’s what frequently separates most > hardworking middle-class Indians from their > spoiled brat rich counterparts educated in the > west. My trader buddy spends all day dealing with > clients, takes them out, wines them and dines > them. Can’t trust that to someone that isn’t cool > to hang out with. I have an Indian friend here > who runs an “ibanking school” to help you land a > job in Ibanking, and 2/3rds of his program is just > about getting people to not look like they came > into work on the the train with their tiffin. > > So what to do? Get some decent clothes (nothing > with rediculous stripes or patterns), wear > underarm deodorant, smile more, smooze, stop being > such a nerd. Get a haircut that costs more than > 20 rupees - wear socks. Become one of the boys. > But don’t overdue any of it. Learn how to act > like someone who belongs in a western company. > Don’t end sentences with “only,” or say “kindly do > the needful.” Learn to communicate well, > thoroughly, and in a western manner. You’ll fly > up the ladder if you can do that. Way the f*ck > faster than taking the CFA. > > I often hire dalits, smart ones, because they > aren’t afraid to work. I really resent most (but > not all) upperclass Indians to be honest, and > their fancy western degrees as they frequently > (but not always) feel they are above solving > routine problems or doing grunt work. We had a > rain leak the other day, not in my personal > office, but in the main area and nobody bothered > to do anything about it. Not because people were > lazy, but because they didn’t see the benefit to > themselves of making the effort and certainly > weren’t going to be bothered to make the effort if > no one else would. My best paid employee is a > dalit from Khargar because he will literally take > on any assignment I give him and sort it himself. > > Bottom line is that in the Indian version of the > Nash Equlibrium, everyone always rats out the > other guy by saying, “What’s in it for me?” From > the perspective of westerners this is just > unacceptable - learn to be a team player.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Not wishing to offend any Shiv Seniks on the > forum, but I live in “Bombay only.” Apun bhi udhar ka ich hai! I too like Bombay.
ChickenTikka, I really liked your perspective on your life here in India. I kind of share the same sentiments as well. I find the culture to be too structured and sometimes, you are judged based on where you come from/what your family background is etc. Its very frustrating to interact with people who have that sort of a mind-set, and unfortunately, in Bombay (won’t talk about the whole of India), I find that to be rampant. Nepotism plays a huge role too as you would have also noticed. As for the OP, keep trying ! If you are persistent, there are lots of “you scratch my back and I scratch yours” opportunities, and you are bound enter into the field of your liking. I agree that the competition is just tremendous, and if you have an IIM or IIT tag, you are pretty much favored over everyone else. Its the harsh reality. But from what I keep hearing, there are many shops that are opening up and they don’t exactly have the pedigree in them yet, so would be a good decision to target them. But again, from what I see, every Tom, Dick and Harry is giving the CFA here in India. Education is a huge business, and looks the CFAI is taking full advantage on it. I believe they just opened up 3-4 test centers all across India, so that shows the market they are getting. Herd mentality prevails too, if one sees ppl doing X degree, they end up doing that without maybe trying to plan out how it can be factored into his career. I know my parents tried to do the same thing to me “study as much as you can, and get as many certificates” and I know its pretty common in other Indian families as well. So, for the OP, sorry to discourage you, you are going to be so special after doing the CFA certification. I can bet that in 10 years time, pretty much everyone commerce student here in India is going to be sitting for the CFA and others who may already have gained the certification. Thats what I try to advice ppl these days who ask me if they should do it. If you don’t see yourself getting into research or AM/PM, maybe you should focus on other things instead. Don’t do it for the hell of it.
@sparty419 - well yes. you are correct about the Herd mentality. But i am not doing the CFA because everyone is doing. I did it more for the knowledge aspect of it. I aim to take the route of ER --> PM. Well that’s my plan. Whether its feasible or not is another story ! I will keep you all posted on how my life goes from here. Whether i made it or not. Should be an interesting read i bet!
aquabu Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > @sparty419 - well yes. you are correct about the > Herd mentality. But i am not doing the CFA because > everyone is doing. I did it more for the knowledge > aspect of it. > > I aim to take the route of ER --> PM. Well that’s > my plan. Whether its feasible or not is another > story ! > > I will keep you all posted on how my life goes > from here. Whether i made it or not. Should be an > interesting read i bet! If you want to be FM, I would advise that you should build network in HNIs. You may search for work in Indian brokerage house. Make contacts there, HNIs as well as institutional contacts and after few years take your loyal clients with you and start a fund with with few millions. To make contacts you have to be dealer/trader/relationship manager, although these three are used interchangeably in Indian brokerage house. ER people doesn’t get any chance to interact with clients. You need contacts to be FM, plus Indian investors love Technical Analysis as much as they love warren buffet and value investing, so don’t miss on technical analysis too. At end of the day, if you wish to start your own fund, start building network in HNIs now, specially diamond merchants (so many of them in Mumbai), successful entrepreneurs, SME owners, builders, civil servants etc. If you can build network in industrialists or senior management of big corporations, there’s nothing better then that. All these people have enough cash and risk appetite to launch your FM career. ER->PM career is pretty much straight forward, compete with thousand others. In fact, your contacts will be extremely useful in becoming PM. Indian PMS highly prefer people who can bring in HNI clients along with ER skills.
@d0pa - Thanks again. Few things i was planning to start doing - Take up a ER/IB course and learn the practical aspects of it. - CFA L3 next June - Have an admit from a US B-school but plan to postpone it till next year coz of personal reasons - Learn excel and VBA - Simon Beninga - not sure if its a great value addition and worth spending time at this point in time - Learn technical analysis - dont know how i can start on this one - provide recommendations and get rated - moneyvidya.com - NETWORK and build contacts = never done this but i will learn how to do it soon. Doing it in a pretty small scale but have to notch up my efforts big time. Right only tapping my immediate contacts Looking at setting up my own porftolio and track it with a specific mandate. Track my progress. Have a blog where i can put my results. Benchmark and compare with an index. Phew so many things to do and i am sitting on AF !
aquabu Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > @d0pa - Thanks again. > > Few things i was planning to start doing > - Take up a ER/IB course and learn the practical > aspects of it. I am really skeptical about it. I advice, you should talk to people who have taken such courses. In my knowledge such courses are very costly as compered to what they offer, I have sold one such course once and I felt like looting people who wanted to learn finance. IMO, Practical aspects you can only learn from experienced traders and money managers. Part of my knowledge which I consider as precious asset, came from interacting with highly experienced traders and FMs (Including global treasury head of ICICI, a FM managing more then 100 crores, and some other traders who managed HNI portfolios). Frankly speaking, most useful insights and practical advices they gave in discussions while we had beer together. So just interact with people who are working in industry they will turn most of your bookish concepts upside down. > - CFA L3 next June Just finish CFA before your MBA, so you can focus on your MBA next year, just work hard and nail it. > - Have an admit from a US B-school but plan to > postpone it till next year coz of personal > reasons Congrats, that’s great! > - Learn excel and VBA - Simon Beninga - not sure > if its a great value addition and worth spending > time at this point in time You have completed 6 years in IT, VBA will seem like writing English to you, it’s way too easy compared to other languages. But coding speed will come only when you will work in VBA, no use of memorizing functions now. As far as excel is concerned, it’s easier then VBA. Once you’ll start doing some stuff on Excel, you’ll soon become expert in it, go to B-School, they’ll make you work a lot on excel. Don’t worry about it. > - Learn technical analysis - dont know how i can > start on this one Don’t worry about tech analysis, use this book by Goldman Sachs http://rapidshare.com/files/410959115/GS_Tech_Analysis.pdf Pretty good concepts in technical analysis for beginners, in fact this much of technical analysis should be enough for a fundamental analysis guy. > - provide recommendations and get rated - > moneyvidya.com > - NETWORK and build contacts = never done this but > i will learn how to do it soon. Doing it in a > pretty small scale but have to notch up my efforts > big time. Right only tapping my immediate > contacts Best of luck, your efforts will bear fruits for sure. > Looking at setting up my own porftolio and track > it with a specific mandate. Track my progress. > Have a blog where i can put my results. Benchmark > and compare with an index. That’s the best thing! > > Phew so many things to do and i am sitting on AF ! You got a solid plan now, best of luck :).
And make a bollywood movie about your story after you become Warren Buffet no.2.
sparty419 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > And make a bollywood movie about your story after > you become Warren Buffet no.2. Slumdog billionaire
d0pa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > IB gives top salaries, gets top students. > Then, Why the f*ck you are equating I Banking > salaries with general mass. Huh? Would you mind pointing out where I made that comparison because I have no idea what you’re referencing…
^ whatever, my apology!
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Your post is way too long to read, but I love Chiken Tikka, wish they had it in the US.
aquabu Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As like many of you, I intend to move to equity > research/IB. And as many of you have found out, I > too realize it is very difficult. > > My background. Electronics Engg, Software techie > for 6 yrs now, cleared my CFA level 2. > I am from Mumbai. India > > Now, I intend to give a big push to my search for > a job hunt. On this front I have already been > talking to few people in the industry and > forwarded my resume. And of course I realize that > it’s not enough. I want to start networking, > attending fairs and cold calling. > > However i need to know HOW. Where do i start? How > do i find out whom to cold call. > > As i understand, the industry is all about > contacts - who you know. I want to reach out to as > many ppl in the industry and push my case. That’s > the only chance i got for an interview. > > If anyone had any experience in pushing their > case, please let me know. It will be really > helpful to know. > > Appreciate your inputs. Talk to Muhaddah , he’s the player around here:) … Seriously man, this field is f*cked up, do something useful with your life.
mo34 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > aquabu Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > As like many of you, I intend to move to equity > > research/IB. And as many of you have found out, > I > > too realize it is very difficult. > > > > My background. Electronics Engg, Software > techie > > for 6 yrs now, cleared my CFA level 2. > > I am from Mumbai. India > > > > Now, I intend to give a big push to my search > for > > a job hunt. On this front I have already been > > talking to few people in the industry and > > forwarded my resume. And of course I realize > that > > it’s not enough. I want to start networking, > > attending fairs and cold calling. > > > > However i need to know HOW. Where do i start? > How > > do i find out whom to cold call. > > > > As i understand, the industry is all about > > contacts - who you know. I want to reach out to > as > > many ppl in the industry and push my case. > That’s > > the only chance i got for an interview. > > > > If anyone had any experience in pushing their > > case, please let me know. It will be really > > helpful to know. > > > > Appreciate your inputs. > > Talk to Muhaddah , he’s the player around here:) > … > > Seriously man, this field is f*cked up, do > something useful with your life. I will try to get Muhaddah;s attn !. Thanks
mo34 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I love > Chiken Tikka, wish they had it in the US. I hope you’re being sarcastic.
marcus phoenix Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > mo34 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I love > > Chiken Tikka, wish they had it in the US. > > > I hope you’re being sarcastic. What’s wrong with Chicken Tikka? Is it a racial thing ? I went to this restaurant in Saudi Arabia and their chicken was fantastic.