accounting types in my experience have an irrational fear of risk.
Maybe a breakthrough this afternoon. I went to talk to two CPAs that I know well, and they’re both hiring.
Bill - a guy I like a lot and respect a lot. Strangely enough, he grew up only five miles from me, but we never met until we both moved 230 miles away. Very successful accounting practice. However, it’s just accounting and tax. He has no desire to venture into investments and is hesitant to let me do it, even as a “side job”. But I’d probably be paid better (he’s the one who said I was worth $120-150, all in) and wouldn’t have to work 2900 hours a year for artificially low (exploitative???) pay.
Jim - an older fellow who just does tax work. I don’t know him quite as well as Bill. No financial statements compilations (This is a good thing, btw.) He really needs a partner, because he’s looking to retire, but can’t seem to find anybody interested in being partner at a tax practice. He’s more than willing to let me do the investments, but he doesn’t want to be involved in it at all. He seems more than happy to let me run my own show, including estate planning, financial planning, etc. However he has a couple of big problems–he has an 80 year old woman partner who doesn’t seem willing to retire, even though she’s more of a liability than an asset at this point. And he feels like forcibly removing her would be immoral and disloyal. Plus, he still has a long way to go to join this century, because he still has paper files and older technology.
Both of these are intriguing. At Bill’s office, I’d be paid better and I’d work with a guy that I know I would like. But it would be a “typical” CPA job. And I feel like I’d be more of a “rank-and-file employee” than a “senior manager on a partner track”. At Jim’s, I’d immediately be vaulted into senior manager, get all the opportunity to do what I love, but have two big problems to face. Still, if I could unlock the value there, the upside would be tremendous.
(Note - I haven’t officially interviewed for either job, nor have I been offered any job at all.)
If you like the industry, I think you should be laying the groundwork to start your own firm.
On #2, what do the actuarial tables say for expected duration for the female partner? And what would the capex be to upgrade once you started running things.
^ I think you mean “expected life span” or “life expectancy”. And I don’t know. I think she’s already past the expiration date.
Since I haven’t got a real in-depth look at their operations, I don’t know what all they’re lacking. I know they want to go paperless, which would involve buying scanners and at least leasing a PDF-enabled photocopier, it I don’t know what they have right now.
Its less about the cost, and more about getting the people to transition to the new system. People don’t like change, even when it’s clearly in their interest.
A friend of mine helped put something in perspective.
If you go with Bill, and he lets you keep your licenses, but he doesn’t allow you to solicit clients, then you will only get to work clients that you bring in (family, friends, “natural market”, etc.). But if, after 3-4 years, he sees the value in it, he might let you start soliciting clients. Then you can really see your AUM take off. All this while making $115k per year.
If you go with Jim, it will take a couple of years for him to build confidence that I can handle the workload, even if I start in a senior position. Then it will take another couple of years for the clients to be comfortable with me. Then, I can probably start to see AUM take off, all while making $65k per year.
So his recommendation was this–if they both let you keep your licenses, go with whomever pays more. It will still likely be 3-5 years before you really start to get clients from the firm anyway.
I’d say option 1 without hesitation. He will pay you now, unlike option 2, old guy who says maybe you will get paid. If you modernize company 2, you might alienate all the old guy clients who like thugs the way they are. Plus if you are actually good and are bff with guy 1, he will probably give you some freedom eventually to work your way.
Break a leg Greenie. All the best and Merry Christmas!
Agree with this! Going from 66k to 120k would allow you to more quickly pay off the debt you mentioned earlier. Plus, you are working for someone you like and able to build your biz case to either add services to your role at his firm or lay the groundwork for going out on your own (since your debt will be gone sooner).
In my experience, working with people you like is more important than the actual work.
Good luck, Greenie!
Update:
I attempted to ask my boss for a raise today. Basically, I told him that I was making more money at my last job, and I was working about 2300 hours per year. Here, I think he expects closer to 2900 hours per year (65 during tax season, 50 during the rest of the year)–and he cut me off saying, “I expect you to get your work done. How long it takes you is up to you.” (I wanted to say–“If I get my work done in 30 hours, you’ll just give me more stuff to do until we get to 50 hours a week, because you think people should work like slaves.” But I didn’t say that.)
Then he continued, saying, “You need to stop thinking about it, and just do it. You’re concentrating on how much (or how little) money you make. You need to work harder and longer. That’s how you become partner in the company,” and, “You don’t get rewarded overnight. You have an extremely short-term view.”
Then he said, “When you look at how many hours you worked at your old job and how many hours you work here, did you take into account all the days off that I give you?” (Really? You don’t give days off. You have 1/2 day for Christmas. Most CPA firms got at least 2 days. And you expect us to work Saturdays–even outside of tax season.)
And even though he didn’t directly address it, he said that he thought I made a good living, and that he takes care of all his employees really well.
So, in short–I should work like a slave and beg for table scraps until he decides to pay me more–if that day ever comes.
Wow I would start job searching right after that conversation… in the office.
What a brutal conversation. I am not sure you started that conversation correctly but this revealed some conclusive insight inadvertently. Your boss doesn’t care if you are compensated properly or the salary changing trends. The partner deal is definitely off the table. You need to find a new job ASAP before he finds a reason to cut you loose.
oh man, this brings back so many bad memories. Small business bosses think their employees should place a high premium on future possibilities. But future possibilities don’t pay the cable bill. Classic small business employer/employee standoff. From the boss’s perspective, he put in a lot of blood sweat & tears to get the company where it is today and he’s not going to just give away the rewards so easily. So if he’s going to give it someone, they’re going to work HARD for it.
From your perspective, you’re sacrificing a LOT financially to help this joker build his business. You can easily do what he does. He’s not that special and he places too high a premium on the fact that he built a small company (it ain’t that hard).
This was me to a tee a couple years ago. You need to decide: do you want a really good wage and little risk and not much upside? If so, go find a larger shop that pays more. Do you want to go out and do what you KNOW you are capable of and keep all the upside for yourself? Then make plans to go out on your own. Don’t be stupid about it – figure out a family budget that you can scrape by on with just your wife’s income. Save for seed money and living expense “cash burn” if you can’t survive on the one income. Also, if you plan on doing this, it will take at least 6 months for your wife to come around to the idea. Start dropping hints about your expertise and ability now and prepare to defend the decision when you first start talking about it with her. Don’t expect her to come around right away. She’s going to be pissed initially.
While boss sounds like kind of a tight ass, and his giving only a half day off for Christmas is directly reminiscent of Scrooge in the Mickey Mouse version of “A Christmas Carol”, I can sort of see his point of view. You agreed to work for your current salary just 6 months ago; unless you are more important now than before, he has no reason to pay you more.
I don’t see any mention here of your workplace achievements, how you are more productive than other employees, or how you have improved upon the business practices. This alone should be the main topic of ANY raise request.
So, while the boss might not be fair overall, I don’t see why this conversation would have gone any differently. Most likely, he thought you were “just ok”, and it does not seem like you were successful in highlighting your achievements. The next time (here or in the next company), when you have a solid argument regarding your added value to the business, it could be different.
Back in 2000’s, I had a conversation like that in an old job where I had been recruited by the owner. Within two months, I was gone to another company that paid more and offered an opportunity to buy-in after two years.
Time to move, this guy is a waste of time.
Some things are already in the works. I’m just waiting to hear back from a couple of people.
And it might not happen today. It might be six months or a year. But I can already tell you that I’m done here.
wow Greenie… I really have the urge to go seduce this guy and then punch him in the balls.
@Turd - I’ve already thought about the possibility. Unfortunately, now isn’t the right time for lots of reasons (mainly because her salary wouldn’t even cover the mortgage and my student loan payment, much less any other bills).
One of the feelers I’ve got out is with the biggest CPA firm within 300 miles. They do a lot of transactional work and do valuations, but they want somebody local. I think I’m gonna shoot for that. Then, after a few years, I’ll either be comfortable there, or I can start my own appraisal shop.
Bad thing–they might make me give up my FINRA licenses. I’m going to fight to keep them wherever I go, but that just may be a reality.
The upside–if I get good at doing valuation, then I can start a one-man office where I do lots of valuation, and (hopefully) a little tax and a lot of investment work.
+1