You studied your ass off for the CFA, took the exam, then found out it was invalidated since some group didn’t do good? Frank Ricci, the lead plaintiff in this case, is not a naturally gifted test taker. In an affidavit, he said he has dyslexia, that he studied as much as 13 hours a day for the firefighter promotional exam, that he paid someone to read the textbooks onto audiotapes, prepared flashcards and worked with a study group. And he passed. http://www.scotuswiki.com/index.php?title=Ricci%2C_et_al._v._DeStefano%2C_et_al.
Just hypothetically speaking, if the test were invalidated because it was unfairly biased, my feeling would probably be something like “that’s bad luck that I studied so hard for a test that turned out to be unfairly biased, but on the other hand I wouldn’t have wanted to benefit at someone else’s expense anyway from an unfairly biased test”.
I’ll just say this much: if getting ahead in this world was 100% based on merit, then stupid people would’ve been weeded out of existence several generations ago. As it stands, either figure out a way to survive and thrive in a world full of stupid people or find yourself a nice shack in the backwoods of Montana.
I didn’t say the test was unfairly biased. Only the results were invalidated because an administrator saw you did better than others. So you wouldn’t care if you found out you not only pass the CFA but got the highest score only to be told it doesn’t count because the people in the UK did worst than the US? Captain Windjammer Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Just hypothetically speaking, if the test were > invalidated because it was unfairly biased, my > feeling would probably be something like “that’s > bad luck that I studied so hard for a test that > turned out to be unfairly biased, but on the other > hand I wouldn’t have wanted to benefit at someone > else’s expense anyway from an unfairly biased > test”.
I’d say it was sad but a business prof of my put our marks on a curve even though there was only 15 people in a 4th year course. I complained to the department and they said he could do what ever he wanted but he did not have to grade on a curve. So unfortunate things happen. Its a mixed up situation and as always there should be exceptions
Did you read what you linked? In the Background section, it says “Because of [the outcomes in question], the City’s independent exam review board, which must vote to certify test results, held hearings to consider the possibility that the tests were racially biased.” Even without that it seemed obvious to me that would be the motivation. This seems like a difficult issue, but it strikes me as bad faith on your part just to assume the decision was motivated by racism (or whatever it is you have in mind). PtrainerNY Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I didn’t say the test was unfairly biased. Only > the results were invalidated because an > administrator saw you did better than others. > > So you wouldn’t care if you found out you not only > pass the CFA but got the highest score only to be > told it doesn’t count because the people in the UK > did worst than the US? > > Captain Windjammer Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Just hypothetically speaking, if the test were > > invalidated because it was unfairly biased, my > > feeling would probably be something like > “that’s > > bad luck that I studied so hard for a test that > > turned out to be unfairly biased, but on the > other > > hand I wouldn’t have wanted to benefit at > someone > > else’s expense anyway from an unfairly biased > > test”.
Racism is judging someone by the color of their skin. Assume all white or black people took the exam. There wouldn’t be a care if some did better than others. Because there was some black people taking the exam who did worst than white people, the test was invalidated. Let’s reverse the situation. If black people did better than white people, would the test be invalidated?
Question: other than the language in which it is written, what makes a test racially biased? As an aside, given that the CFA is solely offered in English and is given globally, wouldn’t it be far more biased than the above exam?
PtrainerNY Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Racism is judging someone by the color of their > skin. Assume all white or black people took the > exam. There wouldn’t be a care if some did better > than others. > > Because there was some black people taking the > exam who did worst than white people, the test was > invalidated. Let’s reverse the situation. If black > people did better than white people, would the > test be invalidated? I certainly hope so. Until a psychometrician ways in, I am staying neutral on this one.
I’m glad everyone opining on this decision has done a full review of the facts of the case and decision, rather than relying on Rupert Murdoch’s synopsis. I’m sure they’re also qualified to understand the legal underpinnings and ramifications of the decision as well. I know Ptrainer is a great legal mind, not so sure about the rest of you.
eureka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Question: other than the language in which it is > written, what makes a test racially biased? > > > > As an aside, given that the CFA is solely offered > in English and is given globally, wouldn’t it be > far more biased than the above exam? Yes yes I would like to know what makes a test or a question racially biased. This is BS for all I know. BS I tell ya!
nm
Q: You get a call about a Beverly Hills mansion is burning down, which do you do first? a) find the owner’s jewelry and move to safe location b) call the owner at his hedge fund or law firm and inform him of the situation c) connect your firehose to a Perrier water source and proceed to extinguish fire d) very if the owner has a $50 million or $100 million insurance policy before dousing his estate with water ^racially-biased question
NakedPuts Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m glad everyone opining on this decision has > done a full review of the facts of the case and > decision, rather than relying on Rupert Murdoch’s > synopsis. I’m sure they’re also qualified to > understand the legal underpinnings and > ramifications of the decision as well. I know > Ptrainer is a great legal mind, not so sure about > the rest of you. And so open minded to seeking out new data! What great analysts!
needhelp Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- … for all I know. Exactly!
JohnThainsLimoDriver Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Q: You get a call about a Beverly Hills mansion is > burning down, which do you do first? > > a) find the owner’s jewelry and move to safe > location > b) call the owner at his hedge fund or law firm > and inform him of the situation > c) connect your firehose to a Perrier water source > and proceed to extinguish fire > d) very if the owner has a $50 million or $100 > million insurance policy before dousing his estate > with water > > ^racially-biased question False. Only one race lives in/around mansions in beverly hills.
NakedPuts Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > needhelp Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > … for all I know. > > Exactly! so why dont you give an example of a racially biased question?
Don’t you remember this stuff… ( I lost the link) … Also, the SAT test has come under fire as biased and unfair. Colleges and organizations like FAIR Test, the anti-standardized testing organization, say that it privileges students who come from higher socio-economic backgrounds. A famous example of alleged bias in the SAT is the ‘oarsman-regatta’ analogy question. The object of the question was to find the pair of terms that have the relationship most similar to the relationship between “runner” and “marathon”. The correct answer was “oarsman” and “regatta”. The question relied upon students knowing the meaning of the two terms, referring to a sport popular with the wealthy. 53% of white students correctly answered the question, and 22% of black students did. Analogy questions have since been replaced by short reading passages. Gaps in scoring between black students and white students persist.
needhelp Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > NakedPuts Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > needhelp Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > … for all I know. > > > > Exactly! > > > so why dont you give an example of a racially > biased question? I’m sure researching the facts of the case will lead you to your answer. But that might detract from your ability to make snap judgments on subjects about which you have no clue, and that’s no fun at all.
NakedPuts Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > needhelp Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > NakedPuts Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > needhelp Wrote: > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > ----- > > > … for all I know. > > > > > > Exactly! > > > > > > so why dont you give an example of a racially > > biased question? > > I’m sure researching the facts of the case will > lead you to your answer. But that might detract > from your ability to make snap judgments on > subjects about which you have no clue, and that’s > no fun at all. Its more fun shooting off the hip. My research days are behind me. Too much work.