I’m also surprised that so many people think voting this thing down is a good idea. We’re already foreign investment rich and trade poor, can we really afford a long drawn out recession (or worse) which can only exacerbate that already shaky relationship? I don’t think so. Also, a US banking crisis = a global banking panic = a global recession (or worse)
> a US > banking crisis = a global banking panic = a global > recession (or worse) = war
TJR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > a US > > banking crisis = a global banking panic = a > global > > recession (or worse) > > > = war Perfect!!! That’s exactly what the US needs most. Another war to spend money on and another shock to the long term political stability of another region. Which region this time? Asia? We’ve never liked those North Koreans anyway. How about them?
Closer to home to keep down expenses. I think we should invade Bermuda, BVI, and the Cayman’s because all the short-selling hedge funds are domiciled there.
One is real money and the other isn’t.
Well the bible thumpers want their Armageddon so I am sure they are praying for a global conflict.
Yay down 777pts!!! I love it!!! I hope we crash and lose all of our investments!!!
“Perfect!!! That’s exactly what the US needs most. Another war to spend money on and another shock to the long term political stability of another region.” We don’t need another war. Where does the largest percentage of govt spending go?
cfa_gremlin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > “Perfect!!! That’s exactly what the US needs most. > Another war to spend money on and another shock to > the long term political stability of another > region.” > > We don’t need another war. Where does the largest > percentage of govt spending go? In 2009, it’s bailouts.
>In 2009, it’s bailouts. yes i forgot. let’s hope not.
vanz1212 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m also surprised that so many people think > voting this thing down is a good idea. We’re > already foreign investment rich and trade poor, > can we really afford a long drawn out recession > (or worse) which can only exacerbate that already > shaky relationship? I don’t think so. Also, a US > banking crisis = a global banking panic = a global > recession (or worse) Add me to this list. I am utterly amazed that financially educated people would somehow think that destroying the US capital market, and very likely, the world’s capital market, is preferable to trying to actually fix the problem. We need time to fix it and this would have provided that. Just as mainstreet is stupid for cutting their nose off to spite their faces re: CEO comp. The fools on here are willing to throw the baby out with the bathwater. It’s sad to think that such supposedly intellectually strong people cannot fathom the damage a global depression will cause. Not only that, they think they know everything and seem to know nothing about how the credit markets are reacting.
Agreed with spierce. After reading this thread it’s clear that the value of the CFA program is crashing even faster than the credit and stock markets. Fortunately, if they get their way they’ll all be out of jobs. These are the sort of “analysts” who prefer predicting a company’s fundamentals to predicting the movement of the stock.
gideon Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Agreed with spierce. After reading this thread > it’s clear that the value of the CFA program is > crashing even faster than the credit and stock > markets. Fortunately, if they get their way > they’ll all be out of jobs. > > These are the sort of “analysts” who prefer > predicting a company’s fundamentals to predicting > the movement of the stock. I don’t even thing they realize what they are doing. They are so wrapped up in some stupid ideology or “tough love” mentality, they cannot even fathom the ramifications. It is Neanderthal mentality. Instead of this… Reasons for the rescue plan? 1. Prevention of the Great Depression 2. Reasons against? 1. ? Alternatives? 1. ? These idiots are… Reasons for the rescue plan? 1. ? Reasons against? 1. Because, um, I think that we have too much credit. And, um, free markets. And, um, fvck rich CEOs. And um…moral hazard! Yeah. Alternatives? 1. ?
The alternative is to come up with a plan that completely bypasses the idiots on wall street who got us into this mess and doesn’t cost the taxpayers $700 billion. The stupid plan, that Spierce likes and that got voted down today, was to give the same fools who got us into this mess another $700 billion with no restrictions. I’m sure Spierce likes it because he’s probably got a boatload of those bonds he’d like to unload but no one spending their own money will even talk to him.
Virgin, I suspect the issue we face is that any solution to the problem will have to include the “idiots on wall street”. How can you shore up the financial system without their involvement? yes it is not right if they make money from this mess, but hey, the real “idiots” are the regulators and lawmakers who allowed this happen. If you give a kid the key to the candy cupboard, what do expect to happen? If you give away money for free, what do you expect to happen?
>If you give away money for free, what do you expect to happen?< Isnt that his point???
virginCFAhooker Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The alternative is to come up with a plan that > completely bypasses the idiots on wall street who > got us into this mess and doesn’t cost the > taxpayers $700 billion. > > The stupid plan, that Spierce likes and that got > voted down today, was to give the same fools who > got us into this mess another $700 billion with no > restrictions. I’m sure Spierce likes it because > he’s probably got a boatload of those bonds he’d > like to unload but no one spending their own money > will even talk to him. the bailout would have done diddlysquat for the credit market -spierce’s main concern.its a crisis of confidence and throwing money at it doesnt bring back the confidence.
I concur with the “nays” on this one–the bill in its present form sucks. Plus, the credit markets aren’t as restricted as what the panic is saying. There is plenty of single- and multifamily capital out there. I also oppose the idea that the 4/5 of Americans who don’t actively participate in the stock market or the capital markets are put on the hook for potentially $700 billion (likely not to reach this apparently) and maybe even $1.6 trillion. Real estate in my area is STILL overpriced by about 20%! I say let it crash.
vanz1212 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m also surprised that so many people think > voting this thing down is a good idea. We’re > already foreign investment rich and trade poor, > can we really afford a long drawn out recession > (or worse) which can only exacerbate that already > shaky relationship? I don’t think so. Also, a US > banking crisis = a global banking panic = a global > recession (or worse) Please. More government is not the answer. Recessions are good. When government gets involved it becomes a depression. NO BAILOUT!
You’d be surprised how many anarcho capitalists are out there. This bill stunk to high hell. I was thrilled to see it killed. Unfortuantely, I doubt much of the voting had to do with “principles” and it more to do with politics from fear of a major backlash from overwhelming angry constituents that would result in the writing of their political obituaries. Bush, paulson and Bernanke set the table for todays volatility by hyperventilating and framing the perception of Armageddon for Monday if we didn’t have a deal. Then they tried to push for the biggest power grab in modern history down the other Congresspeoples throats. How excited would you be to pay your income taxes? When you file you should go ahead and demand a Christmas card the following year from the Royal Bank of Scotland thanking you for your most generous contribution. Let there be no doubt, what we are experiencing is a monetary phenomenom although many would still be reluctant to admit it. We are broke, plain and simple. Japan? More like Argentina. The government could do things to alleviate stress. Its not what id do, but I’m more of a ClassicalLiberal. 1. Relax mark to market for 2 years but require individual firm valuation models be submitted with. financials. 2. Put a moratorium on redeeming the toilet paper banks have been issuing for 3 mos. 3. Issue an interim no interest credit line of about 100 billion dollars and restrict it to domestic lending and debt servicing only. 4. Perhaps relaxing capital gains temporarily will get some things fired up to. Then spend that time trying to come up with a more free market, private solution to the bill. It will have to just be the tastiest sh*t sandwich they can come up with because all options stink. The end result will eventually be the same however. This just delays the inevitable. How long until China, India, or OPEC pull the plug? Long term, we will need to cut spending… DRASTICALLY. Empire? Forget it. Not any longer. Way of life will be cut back, I have no doubts about that. We will go into a consumer recession. How much of GNP was housing? What about the percent for the consumer? Good luck.