Well if what is said in this thread is true, then she was lawfully arrested and there is no point complaining if she got the normal treatment. She should not get special treatment only because she is working for an official body.
I still find it shocking that someone can get arrested and anally strip searched without being found guilty …
I suspect you are right on what happened. Still, a strip search and cavity search?
Just because an offense is federal doesn’t mean it’s worse. Murder is a statute (state) offense; not declaring income from mowing your neighbor’s lawn is a federal offense.
Surely something like a cavity search at least requires probable cause. She’s not been convicted of anything. She’s not suspected of drug running, or smuggling stuff to criminals by stuffing them in body cavities.
I think it’s important to note that she was arrested after having been indicted by a federal jury. She was not picked off the street for littering. Granted, being indicted does not mean you’re guilty, but I think it’s an important distinction.
You are correct again. I take your point.
Murder actually is federal crime under 18 U.S.C. § 1111, but your point is taken. Rightly or wrongly, the US government considers visa fraud to be a very serious offence, hence the possible 10 year prison sentence (20 if drugs are involved). Given the types of folks I assume the US Marshal’s Service typically apprehends, I can’t really blame them for making strip and cavity searches part of their standard procedure.
It seems like a big leap to go from visa fraud to cavity search. I don’t think strip search is that big a deal if done appropriately. Higg’s inner monologue on what to pay the nanny seems spot on. A coworker of mine who’s Indian basically said if you have money there you can murder someone in the street and give another person’s name so they go to jail for you. I think this could be an exagerration, but it gets to the heart of the issue that elite people from that country feel above the law. It’s sad that the Indian Government is more interested in protecting this woman than the raped citizens (and tourists) of the country.
This kind of import of domestic workers happens all the time - among Indian immigrants, but also with people of other nationalities. This diplomat is not an isolated case, and is probably not even the only person who is doing this in the Indian consulate. Last year or so, there was a scandal where some Indian millionaire in NY basically had slaves. Indian people bribe the government all the time, so Ms. Khobragade probably did not even think twice about submitting false documentation to the US authorities. It just so happens that the maid threatened to report her, so shit hit the fan.
The controversy here should be why members of the Indian consulate are submitting fraudulent work papers to the US immigration services. If your job is to facilitate foreign relations, “not committing immigration fraud” should be quite near the top of your life priorities. People who happen to work in some consulate building should not be exempt from standard procedure by the US Marshals. Perhaps if we want to complain, we should ask the government why Tommy Lee Jones indiscriminately anal probes detainees in the first place.
Well, At least the Indian Government has it’s priorites straightened out.
Apparaently half of the lok sabha have criminal cases on them. Good to know…
I’m interested to know the general reaction to this “incident” from Indian citizens. We know that the Indian goverment is close to declaring war, but what about the average, or perhaps not so average, guy/gal on the street. Is there genuine outrage over this? Do Indian citizens feel it was appropriate to remove the traffic barriers from the front of the US embassy and revoke the identity cards of embassy staff?
Was the search done by male or female officers? If by female officers, big whoop! The “bend over and cough” procedure is a standard screening procedure. Besides, if I had to submit to this humiliating and demeaning procedure who the f*** she think she is to complian.
^ Female marshals.
Based on my research, there are also varying degrees of “cavity search”. The most basic one is when they take a flashlight and shine it into all your holes. The “digital” cavity search is when they use their finger to feel around inside your body cavities. In the most extreme cavity searches, they are more invasive and the whole hand can apparently go inside you. I’m not even sure how that physically can happen.
So why are the Indians so upset? Just like the cow, they probably think the but hole is sacred. Let me tell them something, US Marshall are f*kin pimps, they will get all up in that ass.
How does this compare to the Raymond Allen Davis scenario? Was the US reaction in line with the American people’s outrage? Or was the American response completely inappropriate?
Generally, you cut foreign diplomats some slack and find alternative channels to address these situations. This pays dividends when your own diplomats/spies run offside in foreign countries.
Never heard of Ray Davis, but based on a quick Google search, I’d have to agree with Pakistan. Interesting to note however, that it appears he went to trial and was acquitted, so the Indian goverment should have no problem with her going to trial.
Perhaps I missed it at the time, but I’m not aware of protests in the streets here over the treatment of Mr. Davis, or the removal of safety barriers at the Pakistani embassy in DC (assuming they have one).
I do think it’s hard to try to draw parallels between the two incidents though based on the fact that Mr. Davis was actually an intelligence officer and we probably have no idea what the true story is. I’m not suggesting that intelligence officers should be above the law, but I have to assume that the US goverment was actually concerned about something other than Mr. Davis’ human rights.
From the accounts I’ve read, Ms. Khobragade was “cut some slack” as compared to the average arrestee (is that a word?).
He was released and charges dropped after the victims were paid off by the Pakistani government. There was no trial.
The US threatened to expell the Pakistani ambassador and close consulates in Pakistan.
Of course they were. He was a CIA guy. And that’s a huge reason why diplomatic immunity exists, so countries can protect intelligence assets that run offside. This hurts the US’s ability to protect their people overseas in these kind of situations. Is this kind of precedent worth it for this kind of technical violation? No one died here. If the State department was playing it smart, this would have been addressed in other ways. Just as they’d expect foreign governments to address similar situations with Americans.
According to the British press, Mr. Davis technically did go to trial.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12757244
That’s semantics though. I actually don’t believe diplomats, US or other, should have immunity when they break the law of the country they are in. I understand India is threatening to arrest the “partners” of gay and lesbian staff at the US embassy because homosexuality is illegal in India. While I disagree with India’s ban on homosexuality, that’s the law and those folks are breaking it and should be arrested or agree to leave the country if Indian officials really want to make it an issue. If India wants to expel everyone from the embassy, that’s their right too and I’d have no problem with that as long as they’re willing to deal with whatever the US decides to do in return. What I do have a problem with is removing barriers from the US embassy that were clearly inplace to help prevent a terrorist attack, thereby putting embassy emloyees, US and Indian, at risk.
Note: If I’m ever appointed as an ambassador to some country, I will completely reverse my position on diplomatic immunity.
I’ll just have to agree to disagree. I think diplomatic immunity furthers American interest overseas (and therefore, indirectly, my interests as a western democracy citizen). I think respecting and making compromises for that immunity to be respected in return is a core component of maintaining the intelligence system.
I would just guess that Americans as a whole probably have benefited more from diplomatic immunity than vice versa, with the extent of their foreign intelligence operations.
The UN should put India under guardianship.