ISIS bride begging to return to US

Black_Swan · February 21, 2019, 2:59pm

She renounced her citizenship in joining ISIS, which was also a foreign self declared entity.
Apparently what’s debated is that she was born here when her father was a diplomat so the claim by the state department is she never had citizenship.
Actually, that’s exactly how it works in some cases, the UK has a mechanism and stripped Begum of her citizenship.

Schopenhauer · February 21, 2019, 3:10pm

Black_Swan:

Schopenhauer:

You can’t renounce her citizenship, that’s not how it works. One country can’t make a unilateral decision. How would you feel if Honduras just said of everyone in the caravan ‘deal with them, they aren’t citizens any more’. You’d (rightfully) think that’s unfair.

The home country is somewhat obligated to take their citizens back, and deal with them however you want. In this case probably jail or something – I’m not really sure how the legal system is supposed to address it, but someone can figure it out.

It doesn’t matter how you feel on this issue, but it’s important to adhere to whatever system you think is just. Both when people are in ‘your’ country and when ‘your’ people are in other countries.

She renounced her citizenship in joining ISIS, which was also a foreign self declared entity.

Apparently what’s debated is that she was born here when her father was a diplomat so the claim by the state department is she never had citizenship.

Actually, that’s exactly how it works in some cases, the UK has a mechanism and stripped Begum of her citizenship.

Self declared is the key phrase there. Nobody recognized it, not really a country.Certainly not now.
That’s news to me, but ultimately that’s a legal issue that should be decided in the courts.
Again, this isn’t finalized. Her Bangladesh citizenship isn’t definitive, and if she doesn’t have citizenship then she can’t be stripped of her UK citizenship. Ultimately this should be settled in court.

Black_Swan · February 21, 2019, 3:16pm

Schopenhauer:

Black_Swan:

Schopenhauer:

You can’t renounce her citizenship, that’s not how it works. One country can’t make a unilateral decision. How would you feel if Honduras just said of everyone in the caravan ‘deal with them, they aren’t citizens any more’. You’d (rightfully) think that’s unfair.

The home country is somewhat obligated to take their citizens back, and deal with them however you want. In this case probably jail or something – I’m not really sure how the legal system is supposed to address it, but someone can figure it out.

It doesn’t matter how you feel on this issue, but it’s important to adhere to whatever system you think is just. Both when people are in ‘your’ country and when ‘your’ people are in other countries.

She renounced her citizenship in joining ISIS, which was also a foreign self declared entity.

Apparently what’s debated is that she was born here when her father was a diplomat so the claim by the state department is she never had citizenship.

Actually, that’s exactly how it works in some cases, the UK has a mechanism and stripped Begum of her citizenship.

Self declared is the key phrase there. Nobody recognized it, not really a country.Certainly not now.

That’s news to me, but ultimately that’s a legal issue that should be decided in the courts.

Again, this isn’t finalized. Her Bangladesh citizenship isn’t definitive, and if she doesn’t have citizenship then she can’t be stripped of her UK citizenship. Ultimately this should be settled in court.

#3 is legally false.

#2 it was decided by the state department, which has jurisdiction

#1 Everything you said is irrelevant. It doesn’t matter if the entity dissolved, she renounced her citizenship in the process (which didn’t exist), there’s no international law requiring that it be for an entity recognized by the US. You’re just stating things you wish were true.

Schopenhauer · February 21, 2019, 3:21pm

What state is she a citizen of?

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-47310206

“The home secretary has the power to strip an individual of their British citizenship on the basis that it is “conducive to the public good”, as long as the person would not become stateless as a result.”

Sweep_the_Leg · February 21, 2019, 3:23pm

Image result for i declare bankruptcy the office

Black_Swan · February 21, 2019, 3:37pm

Ultimately they’ll pull a favor and let Bangledesh or Syria figure it out.

anon47629474 · February 21, 2019, 4:16pm

if you are convicted of treason, you don’t go to jail.

Codtrawler87 · February 21, 2019, 4:37pm

Black_Swan:

Codtrawler87:

Black_Swan:

Codtrawler87:

Personally I don’t know what the right course of action should be in these kinds of situations. Should you carry the package of a bad decision you made when you were a kid for the rest of your life? But then again, if these people are let back into the country and they end up shooting up a school, whose responsible for that?

At 19 (when she left) she’s an adult. This is a terrorist organization that tortured children and dismembered them in front of parents, committed mass war crimes, human trafficking and often gave child slaves to the wives of the soldiers. There’s no way she wasn’t involved and she fully supported it and was around the executions, etc (based on her interview) until she had her own kid. She’s just out to get herself out of her pile of sh*t she made. Nobody’s there to resurrect everyone who suffered while she lived off the benefits of the ISIS occupation, let her figure it out over there where she belongs.

the UK girl was 15 when she left. At that age you’re so immature that you don’t factor in the repercussions of your decisions. Just to be clear: im not advocating for some full pardon for these girls, I’m just saying that the issue has many sides to it.

Right, but she still continued to support war crimes and terrorism through ISIS until literally a few weeks ago when she was 20 and said she doesn’t regret her decision to go. If she left when she’s 15 and is asking to return at 15 I might pretend you have an argument. There’s really not that many sides to it.

It’s funny to hear these comments because it reminds me of the accounts of Nazis that worked at the camps (some in non-military roles) after the war. Suddenly everyone was trying to explain how they really deserved a second chance, weren’t bad people, didn’t really like it, weren’t really involved with the exterminations, had orders, were young, etc. Just purely “me first” survivalists. In many cases it’s a strawman, in this case, I’m literally saying that to have supported ISIS with what they did to people over there is unambiguously as bad as having supported the Nazis (in quality if not in quantity), seen the camps, and stayed.

What about Guantanamo Bay’s cooks and janitors? In your opinion, should they be held responsible to some extent of the possible human and civil rights crimes at Guantanamo?

S2000magician · February 21, 2019, 4:37pm

Charlie_Work:

Schopenhauer:

You can’t renounce her citizenship, that’s not how it works. One country can’t make a unilateral decision. How would you feel if Honduras just said of everyone in the caravan ‘deal with them, they aren’t citizens any more’. You’d (rightfully) think that’s unfair.

The home country is somewhat obligated to take their citizens back, and deal with them however you want. In this case probably jail or something – I’m not really sure how the legal system is supposed to address it, but someone can figure it out.

It doesn’t matter how you feel on this issue, but it’s important to adhere to whatever system you think is just. Both when people are in ‘your’ country and when ‘your’ people are in other countries.

if you are convicted of treason, you don’t go to jail.

In fact, you can.

It’s probably rare, however.

GorillaNerd · February 21, 2019, 4:40pm

its really funny. quite honestly if this was a dude. we’d assume hes a cold blooded head chopping child raping pos. but because its a woman, many are sympathetic and rise to her defense using examples such as cook or a maid.

Black_Swan · February 21, 2019, 5:07pm

Codtrawler87:

Black_Swan:

Codtrawler87:

Black_Swan:

Codtrawler87:

Personally I don’t know what the right course of action should be in these kinds of situations. Should you carry the package of a bad decision you made when you were a kid for the rest of your life? But then again, if these people are let back into the country and they end up shooting up a school, whose responsible for that?

At 19 (when she left) she’s an adult. This is a terrorist organization that tortured children and dismembered them in front of parents, committed mass war crimes, human trafficking and often gave child slaves to the wives of the soldiers. There’s no way she wasn’t involved and she fully supported it and was around the executions, etc (based on her interview) until she had her own kid. She’s just out to get herself out of her pile of sh*t she made. Nobody’s there to resurrect everyone who suffered while she lived off the benefits of the ISIS occupation, let her figure it out over there where she belongs.

the UK girl was 15 when she left. At that age you’re so immature that you don’t factor in the repercussions of your decisions. Just to be clear: im not advocating for some full pardon for these girls, I’m just saying that the issue has many sides to it.

Right, but she still continued to support war crimes and terrorism through ISIS until literally a few weeks ago when she was 20 and said she doesn’t regret her decision to go. If she left when she’s 15 and is asking to return at 15 I might pretend you have an argument. There’s really not that many sides to it.

It’s funny to hear these comments because it reminds me of the accounts of Nazis that worked at the camps (some in non-military roles) after the war. Suddenly everyone was trying to explain how they really deserved a second chance, weren’t bad people, didn’t really like it, weren’t really involved with the exterminations, had orders, were young, etc. Just purely “me first” survivalists. In many cases it’s a strawman, in this case, I’m literally saying that to have supported ISIS with what they did to people over there is unambiguously as bad as having supported the Nazis (in quality if not in quantity), seen the camps, and stayed.

What about Guantanamo Bay’s cooks and janitors? In your opinion, should they be held responsible to some extent of the possible human and civil rights crimes at Guantanamo?

If they left Al Qaida tribes for those roles, it would be ridiculous for them to welcome them back. I’m not suggesting that everyone who joined the German military from the US committed war crimes I’m saying that they are all traitors and do bare blame for the organization they joined. You drew a false dichotomy in your attempt to follow along.

But if you want to try to play pretend, I’m even somewhat fine with that comparison. They do share some of the blame for what occurred while they were there, its an organization. If I was working as a cook at Guantanamo, you’d assume they were aware of what was going on, you’re a member of the military, you have a personal responsibility.

Sweep_the_Leg · February 21, 2019, 6:51pm

S2000magician:

Charlie_Work:

Schopenhauer:

You can’t renounce her citizenship, that’s not how it works. One country can’t make a unilateral decision. How would you feel if Honduras just said of everyone in the caravan ‘deal with them, they aren’t citizens any more’. You’d (rightfully) think that’s unfair.

The home country is somewhat obligated to take their citizens back, and deal with them however you want. In this case probably jail or something – I’m not really sure how the legal system is supposed to address it, but someone can figure it out.

It doesn’t matter how you feel on this issue, but it’s important to adhere to whatever system you think is just. Both when people are in ‘your’ country and when ‘your’ people are in other countries.

if you are convicted of treason, you don’t go to jail.

In fact, you can.

It’s probably rare, however.

False. Death row is still prison.

S2000magician · February 21, 2019, 6:57pm

Sweep_the_Leg:

S2000magician:

Charlie_Work:

Schopenhauer:

You can’t renounce her citizenship, that’s not how it works. One country can’t make a unilateral decision. How would you feel if Honduras just said of everyone in the caravan ‘deal with them, they aren’t citizens any more’. You’d (rightfully) think that’s unfair.

The home country is somewhat obligated to take their citizens back, and deal with them however you want. In this case probably jail or something – I’m not really sure how the legal system is supposed to address it, but someone can figure it out.

It doesn’t matter how you feel on this issue, but it’s important to adhere to whatever system you think is just. Both when people are in ‘your’ country and when ‘your’ people are in other countries.

if you are convicted of treason, you don’t go to jail.

In fact, you can.

It’s probably rare, however.

False. Death row is still prison.

I meant it in the sense of a prison sentence, not a sentence of death with a prison stay until it’s carried out.

I do, however, admire your opportunism.

anon47629474 · February 21, 2019, 7:19pm

short stay before a date with a noose.

comp_sci_kid · February 21, 2019, 7:32pm

If bernie would have been president that would have never happened!!!