Holdside, my school has 100,000 alums, and about 25,000 in my area. I’m not worried about tapping the alumni connection. I agree with you–there really is an inferiority complex among a lot of people. I’ve really enjoyed the company of many of the people out of the Ivies at my (now fmr) job, and I even just about dated a Yale girl (great girl, but I left the geographic area). They’re just normal people.
how hard is it to get into the Ivey Leagues for undergrad. I know for a PHD, you have to be top 5 at least in a top graduate (masters) program in Canada to have a chance at harvard, mit and the likes (except Chicago).
HoldSideAnalyst Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > kkent Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Total education cost for me: $40,000 > > Total education cost for my peers at work: > > $200,000 > > Salary: exact same > > Salary after they start tapping alumni > networks… > > I didn’t go to an Ivy. I don’t have anything > against them. If you (not kkent, the royal you) > don’t recognize the benefits of going to one, > you’re in denial. Are they a prereq for success? > Absolutely not. I can’t understand the > inferiority complex that comes out on this board > every time someone brings up Ivy schools. i agree with holdsideanalyst (we seem to agree on a lot of things). seriously, no matter how some of you guys slice it, the posts here just reek of sour grapes. bashing top tier schools is about as mature and insightful as teasing the kid who’s smarter than everyone else in his/her elementary school class by calling them a “nerd”. i just can’t figure this out…maybe someone “unbiased” can comment on the envious tone of such posts
kkent Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Total education cost for me: $40,000 > Total education cost for my peers at work: > $200,000 > Salary: exact same Now use the same figures on a broader scale. How many people (as a percentage of the total student body at your school) have the kind of job you have/kind of money you make vs. the same percentage at say Harvard? There ratio is probably 3:1 harvard. This is not to degrade you or your school. It’s just that because of the superior connections ivy kids have, they have better access to these jobs than students at state schools.
as the original poster for this thread, there is no hating giong on at all. i was just inquiring as to the necessity of a CFA when one already has an impressive undergrad or grad degree.
nbk, it depends. A lot of our engineers start out making $55-70k per year, and they comprise a good 20-25% of the school. The average business major starts out around $50,000 (which includes marketing and management majors bringing it down). Architects don’t start out at much but can make a lot in the long run. I’m sure the Ivy grads make more as a whole, but not sure it’s as much as $160,000 would justify. Plus most of our students don’t have the cost of living crunch as those in NYC, LA, or San Fran. The majority live in the South.
the 160k is justified because not only do they get access to top recruiters, but at the bar, they can say, “i went to harvard” then the girl goes…“oh my”
LOL. Gotta love Frank.
i think kkent is on to something. halfass it through life and get rewarded the same as people who busted their butts. sounds like a f’n awesome plan.
Yeah, I’m sure Harvard political science majors work harder than State University engineering and architecture majors… Some people really need a reality check.
A lot of people like to talk about fortune 500 CEOs, and their backgrounds. I don’t care about fortune 500 CEOs. For one, there’s only 500 of them. Sounds like a tough job to get. Plus all the public scrutiny, blah blah blah. Who wants that job? How about top dog at a top hedge fund or PE fund? We’ll assume there’s about 10 per fund, and take the top 200 funds. That’s 2,000 jobs, still by no means easy to get, but in my mind a more achievable goal. What’s the background of these types? Well it just so happens we can do a quick survey of those types. www.faralloncapital.com www.quadranglegroup.com (you can also check out www.blackstonegroup.com, but they’ve got over 100 people with the title of “principal” or better, and I don’t have time for that) Check out the educations of the top dogs. Overwhelmingly Ivy or Ivy-caliber. Note the curious relative lack of MBAs at Farallon (and the near ubiquitous presence of said degree at QG). Also note the curious lack of CFA charterholders, or at least the lack of desire brag about the designation. You can argue this is a small sample size, but I can tell you from experience it’s entirely representative.
Personally I think the educational quality for undergrad is not much different from an Ivy league school and the upper echelon of other good schools (some of which are state schools). Having said that, I think the best undergrad education is found at the elite liberal arts colleges. I’d also note that if you graduate from a top 15 school as an undergrad it opens significantly more doors early on, although down the road school matters less and accomplishment matters more.
kkent Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yeah, I’m sure Harvard political science majors > work harder than State University engineering and > architecture majors… > > Some people really need a reality check. i think that is an unfair statement. one shouldn’t judge the person by its major. all majors are hard if you’re working at the elite level. all knowledge is good knowledge.
No, it’s an unfair statement to say that those who aren’t in Ivy League institutions are lazy and less deserving than their Ivy League counterparts. That’s BS.
kkent, that is also an unfair statement. some people start off in life in more unfortunate situations. however, we must give praise and respect to those that earned the right to tell a girl…“i’m from harvard”.
FWIW, some studies have recently been done looking at whether whether attending an Ivy league school increases success likelihood. (Foreword: many, many studies had correlated school caliber with success, but these always begged the question: are Ivy institutions simply starting with higher-caliber students.) To control the studies they looked at students accepted an Ivy school who chose to attend nonIvy schools. Controlling in this way showed no significant improvement in success likelihood. The pithy conclusion is that the student makes the school, not the other way around. (From personal experience, having been at both types of school, I’d say that it’s certainly possible to put in as much hard work at, and to do as well in your life from, any highly regarded institution.)
BS. At least throw a citation our way, or at least try to define this amorphous “success” concept. One of the most valuable aspects of attending these top schools is the other students that you meet, learn from, and network with throughout life.
Sorry, took a little time with Google Scholar. How’s this: http://www.ctcl.com/pdf/Who_Needs_Harvard.pdf “The researchers Alan Krueger and Stacy Berg Dale began investigating this question, and in 1999 produced a study that dropped a bomb on the notion of elite-college attendance as essential to success later in life. Krueger, a Princeton economist, and Dale, affiliated with the Andrew Mellon Foundation, began by comparing students who entered Ivy League and similar schools in 1976 with students who entered less prestigious colleges the same year. They found, for instance, that by 1995 Yale graduates were earning 30 percent more than Tulane graduates, which seemed to support the assumption that attending an elite college smoothes one’s path in life. But maybe the kids who got into Yale were simply more talented or hardworking than those who got into Tulane. To adjust for this, Krueger and Dale studied what happened to students who were accepted at an Ivy or a similar institution, but chose instead to attend a less sexy, “moderately selective” school. It turned out that such students had, on average, the same income twenty years later as graduates of the elite colleges. Krueger and Dale found that for students bright enough to win admission to a top school, later income “varied little, no matter which type of college they attended.” In other words, the student, not the school, was responsible for the success.”
there is NO doubt to me that attending an Ivy League school is beneficial. Here is why: when you attended your honour classes, weren’t the students around you better? didn’t that motivate you to work and study harder and as a result, learn more? being in an Ivy school has 3 main advantages 1)you get to show off 2)your level of competition makes you step your game up 3)network and job recruitment unless you’re willing to say that Ivy Leaguers are not more competitive, then i think the point stands that the level of competition makes you a stronger player. thereby, this makes you a better employee. can you be made worst off by going to an ivy league school? aside from the tuition, i don’t think there is a bad side to it all else equal