prabhashverma Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > milkpump Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > if you have to take cfa to help you find a job, > > “you won’t find a job”. cfa is really only good > for > > refining knowledge after you already have a > job. > > DISHEARTENING 
> > btw, I will prove you wrong. it pains me to say this as I do not have a job but I think milk pump is right on.
CFA is a great thing but if you do it to get into finance I’m afraid you’ve chosen the wrong way. Btw: I do have a job and hiring people and no experience + CFA doesn’t mean a thing to me. Experience means something and experience + CFA makes me very interested.
hire me bleek…
How about MBA + CFA (level I + possibly Level II) + no experience in finance industry? I guess this was the original thread and not just CFA levels. CFA by itself may not give you a lot of mileage.
Related thread that also shows that CFA (even all three levels) does not seem to help by itself in a job search: http://www.analystforum.com/phorums/read.php?13,784650
Bleeck Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > CFA is a great thing but if you do it to get into > finance I’m afraid you’ve chosen the wrong way. > > Btw: I do have a job and hiring people and no > experience + CFA doesn’t mean a thing to me. > Experience means something and experience + CFA > makes me very interested. I understand your little heart feels so threatened because so many people are trying to switch to finance with CFA. But in this business you got to have stronger and bigger heart. BTW: Just because you got into the business earlier than us doesn’t mean anything and We don’t need your job.
You don’t need my job but you’d want it. Truste me :P. I’m not threatened by people trying to get into finance. On the contrary actually, I think it’s a great business to be in. The problems: (1) people want in it for the money. Wrong reason and they won’t make it. (2) CFA won’t get you in the industry. That’s a misconception. Sorry if this was your last straw but it’s not going to help you. If you’re in - at whatever level - CFA can be a boost to your career. That’s how it works. I’m not trying to break your heart, just to keep you realistic. CFA doesn’t get your career started, it can only take it further.
buddham Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How about MBA + CFA (level I + possibly Level II) > + no experience in finance industry? I guess this > was the original thread and not just CFA levels. > CFA by itself may not give you a lot of mileage. Depends on where you got your MBA but an entry level position would be a possibility. You just have the markets going the wrong direction right now but that’ll turn around at some stage. I wouldn’t put to much emphasis on CFA until you can actually use the knowledge to your benefit at work. Without work it doesn’t make any sense.
Agree with Bleeck’s above two comment. With no experience, MBA + CFA don’t help at all, especailly in this type of market. The chance for someone to swicth from a technology role to a front office role in finance/investment is close to zero, if not zero. I have seen way too many examples of this. The only thing that may help is to have connection. The connection/relationship is far more important than professional credentials. Remember the saying? “it is not what you know…it is who you know.”
yeah right. A bunch of losers with 5+ or 10+ or 20+ years experience can’t even beat S&P 500. What a joke. No wonder why CFAI doesn’t limit the exams only to finance graduates.
WYM Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Agree with Bleeck’s above two comment. > > With no experience, MBA + CFA don’t help at all, > especailly in this type of market. The chance for > someone to swicth from a technology role to a > front office role in finance/investment is close > to zero, if not zero. I have seen way too many > examples of this. The only thing that may help is > to have connection. The connection/relationship is > far more important than professional credentials. > > Remember the saying? “it is not what you > know…it is who you know.” This is very good info. I will keep this in mind. Being from technology area, I had no idea about CFA when I first enrolled for MBA. Primary reason for my MBA was to remove some of the roadblocks to move from pure technology role to technical leadership role (I am not talking about tech lead here, but more about product development, business development). During the coursework while going through some books, I really liked finance related areas. So, I started talking to some of the alumni and they said if I could complete level II by the time I graduate, I should have no problem getting into Finance related jobs. Again I am not just talking about money management, but corporate finance and investment banking. I am not interested in investment banking, so I was really doing CFA instead of Finance electives for CorpFin jobs. While going through CFA levels, I am really interested in money management and investment now. It looks like I am very malleable and may need to think hard with help of some of my colleagues to figure out what I should do. Problem is my colleagues are all very technical. Bleeck, WYM, Black Swan, thanks for your inputs. I know we do not want to believe you that without experience, MBA+CFA won’t open door, but if that is the fact, we have to take that into account. I would still like to hear from more people who are already in the Finance area.
Bleeck Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > CFA is a great thing but if you do it to get into > finance I’m afraid you’ve chosen the wrong way. Alright - I’ll pile on here. Bleeck is right. The overarching view I would add, though, is that “learning” (CFA, MBA, self study, etc.) is not the way to go. Producing is the only way. Experience is important because it generally allows you to discuss what you have produced. If you don’t have the experience, you need to find some way to create something of use and of value that you can present and discuss. Things like the CFA and MBA will give you the tools and the background knowledge, but you have to put in the large amounts of effort to actually generate something. This just builds on Bleeck’s other post about how getting into this for the money is entirely wrong. If you want stuff handed to you, you’re barking up the wrong tree.
Don’t you have to start somewhere in the field? What was your path to your current position?
Buddham, Nobody can deny you forever. Somebody will need you once you pass L2 and L3. I know some guys work in the IB/PE/VC/Equity and they made it there in their late 30’s with CFA and no related experience. In fact, they are big success now. Try in an organization where CFA holders work…they will appreciate your effort and motivation.
buddham Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Don’t you have to start somewhere in the field? > What was your path to your current position? Most of the folks I know were hired straight out of college as junior analysts or trainees. At the beginning they were put in the rotation program for a year or so and eventually settled in one area. At the beginning, they did all the dirty work such as crunching data or building charts in excel for senior bankers. The job was not as interesting as many may thought and the hours were extremely long. On the work hour adjusted basis, the compensation was average. Many of them went to B schools after a few years of hard work. After getting their MBA, they went back to I banks to take jobs at the associate level. After another few years, some of them made it to VP and some of them got burn out and swithed tracks to different fields in finance. The above is just my observation and certainly doesn’t represent for the whole industry. As tom18606 pointed out, there were examples for someone to make the switch successfully. however just keep in mind that after the blow up in the CDO market, most of the structure products are virtually gone. Many folks in the mortgage, abs and structure credits areas have lost their jobs. Currently there is a lot of people with solid financial backgroup are looking for jobs. So for someone who have no experience, it will be a daunting task to get in now.
cfafrank Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > yeah right. A bunch of losers with 5+ or 10+ or > 20+ years experience can’t even beat S&P 500. What > a joke. No wonder why CFAI doesn’t limit the exams > only to finance graduates. In my post I told what I observed and meant to be helpful. It is fine that you don’t agree. But there is no need for making immatured comments. Asset management is not just about beating S & P or some other indexes. I am not in money management field but do know that there is a lot more to it.
I hear what you guys are saying but if companies really prefer a laid-off dude with a BA and 3 years of experience over someone with a CPA, MBA and waiting on results for level III, I’m going to be thoroughly depressed.
aldford Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I hear what you guys are saying but if companies > really prefer a laid-off dude with a BA and 3 > years of experience over someone with a CPA, MBA > and waiting on results for level III, I’m going to > be thoroughly depressed. Bear stearns recently dismissed most of their 450 employees in asset management unit. Do you really think most of them have only BA and 3 yrs experience? I am not trying to be pessimistic and discourage anyone here. But it is what it is. The market always goes in cycles. I am sure at one point, it will be back to the good old days. For now, as some predict, the worst has yet to come.
aldford Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I hear what you guys are saying but if companies > really prefer a laid-off dude with a BA and 3 > years of experience over someone with a CPA, MBA > and waiting on results for level III, I’m going to > be thoroughly depressed. aldford - I can appreciate what you’re thinking here… but go back to my post a little further up the chain. what can you _do_? Sure, you learned through an MBA, you learned through CFA, but what of _value_ can you _do_. I’m not a CPA so I can’t comment on that - I figure with a CPA one is likely to have relevant experience. I think in general, even though employers try to play it down, an MBA and a CFA/progress do carry some weight. That said, for a couple of interview rounds (that I received offers on), I created models that were representative of what I’d done in the past, as well as what I knew how to do but hadn’t done for work, and brought them with. Just pages of neatly organized and formatted printouts. Once that was on the table, the interviews turned almost entirely fit. my job now? its not entirely modelling - but you can assume anything in finance will be heavy in model creation/use. And on that note - how many of those who ask about job prospects have taken that step - or even thought of taking that step. The reason you see so many people posting about jobs/CFA is because they think that because they studied something, someone should want them. Flawed reasoning. HTH
WYM Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Agree with Bleeck’s above two comment. > > With no experience, MBA + CFA don’t help at all, > especailly in this type of market. The chance for > someone to swicth from a technology role to a > front office role in finance/investment is close > to zero, if not zero. I have seen way too many > examples of this. The only thing that may help is > to have connection. The connection/relationship is > far more important than professional credentials. > > Remember the saying? “it is not what you > know…it is who you know.” That really depends on the MBA you do. A top 5 MBA will earn you a front office job any time, even with zero finance experience, even in a tough market like this one.