I have 3 years of technology experience, but I did my summers in the front end of an investment bank. I cleared CFA Level 1 before joining my MBA. I agree with AudioSolvay that it all depends from where you are doing your MBA. A top 5 MBA will land you an investment banking job anytime.
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iim_cfa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I have 3 years of technology experience, but I did > my summers in the front end of an investment bank. > I cleared CFA Level 1 before joining my MBA. I > agree with AudioSolvay that it all depends from > where you are doing your MBA. A top 5 MBA will > land you an investment banking job anytime. in which campus are you studying ? ABCLIK
WYM, I agree with you however, what was the reason for the sub prime crisis and related crash? Who should be responsible for investing in those assets without assessing the risk? That who had 10-15-20 years of experience or was it model risk? In that respect a guy with CFA and no experience, and those guys with 15-25 years of experience don’t make much difference. What about the two guys who bet against those big banks and got 4 billion and 60 millions? They knew that the crash would happen. Also, is it a myth or reality to assume that price/return follow log normal distribution? Experience counts but new ideas can make difference as well. It depends on the organizational culture.
tom18606 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > WYM, > > I agree with you however, what was the reason for > the sub prime crisis and related crash? Who should > be responsible for investing in those assets > without assessing the risk? That who had 10-15-20 > years of experience or was it model risk? In that > respect a guy with CFA and no experience, and > those guys with 15-25 years of experience don’t > make much difference. What about the two guys who > bet against those big banks and got 4 billion and > 60 millions? They knew that the crash would > happen. Also, is it a myth or reality to assume > that price/return follow log normal distribution? > Experience counts but new ideas can make > difference as well. It depends on the > organizational culture. those two guys won’t be working for anyone any time soon !!!
The public perception in Canada is that the CAs are the “be all and end all” of everything that is finance or accounting related. However, this is quickly changing due to the exponential rise of the level of professionalism, work experience and competency of the CGAs and CMAs. If you check many job postings for accounting/finance positions in Canada you will see that the job requirements would state “accounting designation required (CA, CGA or CMA)”. 10 or 15 years ago many of these jobs were exclusively open to only CAs.
Interesting topic and one that hits close to home. I have my MBA and have worked for 13 yrs supporting the investment process (in some way) as an IT developer and now manager. Worked in Fixed Income (3 yrs), Equity (8 yrs) and Hedge Funds (2 yrs). I’m considering the cfa to be career insurance. With all of the outsourcing in IT you can’t consider it a stable profession anymore. I realize that the cfa, alone, will not be enough to get my foot in the door. Even with my cfa, mba and 13 yrs of somewhat related experience it will be difficult to make the move, especially at my age. Luckily, I have made a lot of contacts on the business side and hoping someone gives me a shot. I am concerned about starting at the bottom. Although there is higher upside, I’m concerned that I would have to take a paycut initially.
I don’t know how exactly employers weigh CFA vs MBA. Personally - maybe because I am taking it right now - I feel CFA says a lot more than MBA. The reasoning is: even an Top 5 MBA wouldn’t pass CFA. Anyway, I think whether you can make the switch smoothly can’t be answered with a simple “yes” or “no”. It depends on what your current situation today and how you consistently build your network, your knowledge and your vision. If you are in technology for an Investment Bank - I am too, depending on the firm’s culture, making the switch is not that hard usually. For example, if you are supporting front office, I don’t see what’s stopping you from asking your users to look around and check out opportunities for you. In many smaller firms, transistioning from technolgoy to trader or other profit-center unit is not unusual. The bottome line is, there are many factors to determine the outcome of this. I agree simply relying on CFA and/or MBA is not enough.
The facts are the following: if you manage to get in a top 5 MBA, employers are cajoling you to sign for them, even investment companies (well, not exactly, because you still have interviews etc. but you know what I mean). Once you finish CFA L3, nobody’s there begging for you to sign for their company. Whether these facts are justified / fair or not, I don’t know. But this leads me to conclude that employers view an MBA (top 5 that is) as a better education. Does anyone have evidence of better employment thanks to CFA?
Passing percentage in CFA is around 40%. While the passing percentage of a top 5 MBA in India is around 0.6%. In the US it might be around 20%. The recruiter will definitely prefer a top 5 MBA than a CFA. Anyone clearing a paper with a passing % of 0.6 will clear CFA. Moreover, the classroom course curriculum of MBA will give you a better understanding of fin concepts than a self study curriculum. As for the campus, I would prefer maintaining my anonymity.
iim_cfa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Passing percentage in CFA is around 40%. While the > passing percentage of a top 5 MBA in India is > around 0.6%. In the US it might be around 20%. The > recruiter will definitely prefer a top 5 MBA than > a CFA. Anyone clearing a paper with a passing % of > 0.6 will clear CFA. > > Moreover, the classroom course curriculum of MBA > will give you a better understanding of fin > concepts than a self study curriculum. > > As for the campus, I would prefer maintaining my > anonymity. That figure of 0.6% for IIMs doesn’t tell the real story since IIMs are open to undergraduate students with absolutely no experience and even those with 3 year undergraduate courses. And besides everyone writes the CAT while everyone thinks twice before shelling out dough in order to app for a top 5 US B school. Getting into a top US B School is tougher for an indian than getting into any IIM. That said, I think a CFA in india is pretty worthless without an MBA or relevant work experience. And thats because the number of indians writing it every year is increasing exponentially.
I WILL ADD TO PEOPLE SAYING DEGREES WITHOUT WORK EXPERIENCE IS WORTH CLOSE TO 0. SORRY BUT THIS IS THE TRUTH. I WORK FRONT OFFICE WITH A BA AND ONLY LEVEL 1 COMPLETED - FATHER IN LAW IS AN EQUITY TRADER WITH NO COLLEGE, NO CFA EXAMS, NADA. FOCUS ON NETWORKING… GOOD LUCK
cfafrank Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > yeah right. A bunch of losers with 5+ or 10+ or > 20+ years experience can’t even beat S&P 500. What > a joke. No wonder why CFAI doesn’t limit the exams > only to finance graduates. cfafrank, there are so many issues with your stupid comments I don’t even know where to begin. Firstly, most managers manage to different risk characteristics and with heavier restrictions than the S&P500 making it a crappy benchmark. Secondly, pretty much anyone can beat the S&P 500, just not on a risk adjusted basis, which is the point I think you are missing. Lastly, what are you other than an obvious douchebag with no finance experience criticizing those in the industry’s performance. What a small minded prick. Seriously, this would be roughly comparable to me going to a pro baseball game and sitting in the stands going, “look at all these idiots striking out, they can’t even hit a stupid baseball given 3 tries, I would be way better, they should have hired me…etc,etc,etc.” Earlier you criticized Bleek for laying out what people are largely regarding as accurate advice, because his “little heart feels threatened”, he is obviously in an HR oriented roll, so A.) I believe he is qualified to make his assertions, and B.) I do not know why he would be threatened by people wanting to go into IM or IB as this would clearly play to his advantage. Possibly your little heart feels threatened, then again, I’m not even sure why your mom lets you on the computer after your 9 pm bedtime.
I sure do miss your posts Black Swan!! haha… nice…
I’d agree with the networking part. If someone here in Risk Management needs someone for the Quant side and someone in here knows a guy/girl extremely well with a proven interest in finance and a quant background… well I’d say they have a good shot. Without an internal reference these resumes wouldn’t even be looked at.
Bleeck, do you mind if I send you an email? I have a couple questions for you regarding my work background.
Black Swan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > cfafrank Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > yeah right. A bunch of losers with 5+ or 10+ or > > 20+ years experience can’t even beat S&P 500. > What > > a joke. No wonder why CFAI doesn’t limit the > exams > > only to finance graduates. > > > cfafrank, there are so many issues with your > stupid comments I don’t even know where to begin. > Firstly, most managers manage to different risk > characteristics and with heavier restrictions than > the S&P500 making it a crappy benchmark. > Secondly, pretty much anyone can beat the S&P 500, > just not on a risk adjusted basis, which is the > point I think you are missing. Lastly, what are > you other than an obvious douchebag with no > finance experience criticizing those in the > industry’s performance. What a small minded > prick. Seriously, this would be roughly > comparable to me going to a pro baseball game and > sitting in the stands going, “look at all these > idiots striking out, they can’t even hit a stupid > baseball given 3 tries, I would be way better, > they should have hired me…etc,etc,etc.” Earlier > you criticized Bleek for laying out what people > are largely regarding as accurate advice, because > his “little heart feels threatened”, he is > obviously in an HR oriented roll, so A.) I believe > he is qualified to make his assertions, and B.) I > do not know why he would be threatened by people > wanting to go into IM or IB as this would clearly > play to his advantage. Possibly your little heart > feels threatened, then again, I’m not even sure > why your mom lets you on the computer after your 9 > pm bedtime. Black Swan, it is fact that so many money managers can’t beat the market. My point is that if you can’t make money your experience counts nothing in finance business. Suppose if you tell your clients that because you have stricter restrictions and S&P is a crappy benchmark so you can’t beat it, you will go home and suck your mother’s tits because you will lose your job and probably your shorts too. As for the non-pro commenting on pro BS, give me a break, so many AFers without previous finance related experience have switched to finance with CFA and some so called pro people just don’t see it or choose to ignore it and keep bulsh!ting around. Again, if you can’t make money, nobody will give a fack about whether you are a pro or some other sh!t. And BTW, Black Swan, I have to say you have the gayest name on AF and on 19 August 2008 we will know who has “little heart” and who is “a small minded prick”. I will beat the crap out of you, just wait and see.
I think in this bad market, it is probably not making sense to join any schools other than the very best. My plan is to apply for top 5 MFE or MBA programs. If I can not make it to these top schools, it is a very good sign that I will not make it to finance any way. I think CFA knowledge may help the application or at least it should make the school work easier. It is not a surprise that all the other applicants have passed these exams though. So it is at least make one on par with the rest of field.
disptra, you’re right but at the same time, admission to grad schools in a down market is a steep challenge as thats when admission is most competitive. Vicious cycle there.
cfafrank, I know I shouldn’t be replying to your kind of people as you are obviously the type who hates to hear stuff that conflict with your own ideas - even when it comes from good sources. Above that, you don’t just hate that, you start bashing them for a reason I can’t even imagine. http://www.analystforum.com/phorums/read.php?12,733309,733309#msg-733309 http://www.analystforum.com/phorums/read.php?12,735938,735938#msg-735938 Humour is important. Please get some of it. Anyway. Your comments. Black Swan, it is fact that so many money managers can’t beat the market. - True My point is that if you can’t make money your experience counts nothing in finance business. - Somewhat true. It is the experience that makes you better. Losing a lot of money for client 1 can be very fruitful to client 2. Few, few people are top achiever right out of school. Many learn from mistakes and get better. Hence, experience matters. A lot. Suppose if you tell your clients that because you have stricter restrictions and S&P is a crappy benchmark so you can’t beat it, you will go home and suck your mother’s @#$%& because you will lose your job and probably your shorts too. - Eh… not really but you know you’re just being an idiot here so I won’t bother. As for the non-pro commenting on pro BS, give me a break, so many AFers without previous finance related experience have switched to finance with CFA and some so called pro people just don’t see it or choose to ignore it and keep bulsh!ting around. - Right. Many people switch to finance. Of course, we regularly need lots of people. Thing is that CFA is not what we search for when we want a junior. That’s why many, many people here try to HELP young chaps by telling them to NOT go for CFA if trying to get into finance is the goal. There are better - less time wasting - methods to do so. CFA should be very very low on the list if that’s your goal. Again, if you can’t make money, nobody will give a fack about whether you are a pro or some other sh!t. - If you repeat nonsense twice that doesn’t make it more true. And BTW, Black Swan, I have to say you have the gayest name on AF and on 19 August 2008 we will know who has “little heart” and who is “a small minded prick”. I will beat the crap out of you, just wait and see. - At least you’re mature about it.