Generally speaking, 1) They add more value to the economy/society, Or 2) “Net net”, they are value destroyers Your thoughts?
I’m officed in Dallas but was told of a fine we had to pay in Chicago because an executive hung his own frames in his office (against rules in union building). Niice anyhow- I think they have their place and time, but what really gets me is the REQUIRED membership some have. I worked as in a grocery store in college and was forced to pay a substantial amount per paycheck (10%ish) to get ‘union protection’. WTF? I was a teen making some book money and they were taking cash out of my check without me having an option to opt out. There was no real value in return.
unions are the biggest bunch of BS ever. there was a time and a place for them, you know, when factory workers were losing arms and legs and working 20 hour days under horrible conditions but that is OVER. unions cost taxpayers a lot of money (teaching unions)…there was a principal in a local town in my area (monmouth county nj) who retired and had 110 days of unused vacation saved up, which she was entiteld to like $250k for! her entire retirement package was about $750k in total…granted its in court right now but is that fair??? why does this person deserve to have the state pay them $700k and then still be eligible for collect SS??? a middle school principal…i mean how hard can that be and you’re only working 180 days a year!
see U.S. auto industry and U.S. public school system. you be the judge. auto industry – bankrupt school system – highest per student expenditures in the world yet average at best in math, reading and science.
Good in a monopsony environment, on the fence about others. Walmart needs to be unionized because of their monopsonist strategy.
To be fair… we educate everyone… same cannot be said about most the other countries…
If I am a worker in the union company then it’s fine else no way.
^but on a per student expenditure scale, you should be able to compare performance accurately, no?
My Dad use to own a mechanical engineering business in the Ohio and frequently had to deal with unions. The stories he told me made them seem nothing more than a giant thug-like organization. The union employees harassed non-union employees by breaking equipment, beat up anyone who dared to go on the construction site during strikes, made death threats, etc… it got really ugly sometimes. Politicians didn’t make it easier for non-union businesses to operate especially when it came to government contracts. The guaranteed votes were just too tempting. As others have said, unions seem to have had their place and time. I guess I don’t have an issue with unions if they don’t get government involved, but that seems to be the best way for them to “succeed.” Check it out on the web, unions make up a small portion of the private sector now but have ballooned into government sectors.
100% agree so far. I’ve also heard of the ‘thug mentality.’ It was a fact that the mob ran the Teamster’s Union for some time. Rumors are around that they still influence it today. It is illegal for companies to collude and set prices. But it is not illegal for employees to collude and set their wages? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triangle_Shirtwaist_Factory_fire I was told that the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory Tragedy was the start of unions. Back in the days of dangerous labor, unions were an advocate of the workers against the employer in order to ensure safety. This was pre-government labor laws. With government programs like OSHA, unions don’t seem necessary. If anything, they are a way for workers to strong arm their employer. Organized crime so to speak. I know a scab who was murdered trying to cross a strike line. I also worked at a grocery store that took out union dues each month. As a 15 year old kid, I found it very annoying that I could not opt out.
QuantJock_MBA Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > I also worked at a grocery store that took out > union dues each month. As a 15 year old kid, I > found it very annoying that I could not opt out. Fair enough QJ. but if the owner of the store decided to fire your ass because he thought you looked funny, the union would back you up in a fight. Sure you could just get another job, but what if unemployment was 15% and you had to support your family? Unions have their good side and their bad sides, but on balance they’re probably worth having (subject to strict regulatiion of course, just like everyhting else0. As an aside, there was an incident in Western Australia a few years ago where a bunch of miners out in the bush in the middle of nowhere (all earning $150k+ for the simplest job such as driving a truck) all went on strike for a few weeks because the canteen did not stock a certain flavour of ice cream.
newsuper Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > QuantJock_MBA Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > > I also worked at a grocery store that took out > > union dues each month. As a 15 year old kid, I > > found it very annoying that I could not opt > out. > > > Fair enough QJ. but if the owner of the store > decided to fire your ass because he thought you > looked funny, the union would back you up in a > fight. Sure you could just get another job, but > what if unemployment was 15% and you had to > support your family? > > Unions have their good side and their bad sides, > but on balance they’re probably worth having > (subject to strict regulatiion of course, just > like everyhting else0. > > As an aside, there was an incident in Western > Australia a few years ago where a bunch of miners > out in the bush in the middle of nowhere (all > earning $150k+ for the simplest job such as > driving a truck) all went on strike for a few > weeks because the canteen did not stock a certain > flavour of ice cream. thats when you call OSHA and believe me- they will be in big trouble if they did not give you a written warning that your ‘looking funny’ was against their policy 
people make a living out of setting osha on small companies after getting fired with cause.
Getting fired with cause, sure, but there are plenty of people who get fired without cause, and they’re the ones who need union help. the plain fact is that most of us here don’t think very highly of unions because we don’t need them. But I bet on ditchdiggersforum.com they are pretty glad to have union support
newsuper Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > QuantJock_MBA Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > > I also worked at a grocery store that took out > > union dues each month. As a 15 year old kid, I > > found it very annoying that I could not opt > out. > > > Fair enough QJ. but if the owner of the store > decided to fire your ass because he thought you > looked funny, the union would back you up in a > fight. Sure you could just get another job, but > what if unemployment was 15% and you had to > support your family? > > Unions have their good side and their bad sides, > but on balance they’re probably worth having > (subject to strict regulatiion of course, just > like everyhting else0. > > As an aside, there was an incident in Western > Australia a few years ago where a bunch of miners > out in the bush in the middle of nowhere (all > earning $150k+ for the simplest job such as > driving a truck) all went on strike for a few > weeks because the canteen did not stock a certain > flavour of ice cream. True, but this type of incident could easily be solved through less costly and more efficient methods than a union.
I think in a field where it is nearly impossible to differentiate yourself as a better worker, unions are good. But in other fields (finance) it is easy to prove your worth or non-worth. Ditch diggers on the other hand are hard to evaluate.
Analyze_This Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think in a field where it is nearly impossible > to differentiate yourself as a better worker, > unions are good. But in other fields (finance) it > is easy to prove your worth or non-worth. Ditch > diggers on the other hand are hard to evaluate. How is it hard to evaluate ditch diggers? The best ditch digger is the guy (or gal) who: Shows up on time every day; Digs longer, harder and faster than everyone else; Digs sound ditches that don’t collapse; Digs ditches where and when they are supposed to be dug; Digs ditches in the correct dimensions; and Takes care of his (or her) shovel If you show up late all the time, dig crappy ditches in the wrong place and leave your shovel out in the rain, you’re a crappy ditch digger and should be fired. Like CPAbeatsCFA, I live in NJ where the teachers’ union (NJEA) is the 800 pound gorilla. They shout from the top of every mountain that there is no way to evaluate teachers, which is why they claim they need a union. Privately though, every teacher I know (4 or 5) says that every teacher in their school knows who is doing a good job and who is stealing a salary. The NJEA even refused to back NJ’s bid for $400 MM in federal grant money under Pres. Obama’s new “Race to the Top” program because the program requires a merit-based pay system.
higgmond Wrote: > > Like CPAbeatsCFA, I live in NJ where the teachers’ > union (NJEA) is the 800 pound gorilla. They shout > from the top of every mountain that there is no > way to evaluate teachers, which is why they claim > they need a union. Privately though, every > teacher I know (4 or 5) says that every teacher in > their school knows who is doing a good job and who > is stealing a salary. The NJEA even refused to > back NJ’s bid for $400 MM in federal grant money > under Pres. Obama’s new “Race to the Top” program > because the program requires a merit-based pay > system. Fair enough, but you’re focusing on only one aspect of what unions do. Besides protecting their own asses, they also help ensure their members are able to work in a safe environment, can get regular training, are not required to work in sweat-shop conditions, don’t get fired because they look funny or talk funny etc etc. Put it this way, if unions really were as bad as some people make them out to be, we would have done away with them a long time ago.
^all the basic conditions for safe, healthy work environment are already regulated outside of unions and for the other “benefits”, I say the costs to society outweigh the private benefits union members enjoy.
^and who campaigned to have those basic conditions put in place?
^ok, so they’ve served their purpose. now they just abuse their power to enable their members to suck the system dry. time to blow them up.