So Madoff’s accountant, David Friehling, is convicted and faces up to 105 years in prison. Madoff faces up to 150 years. Does anyone think the Madoff scandal is being blown out of proportion? Think back to Enron. Jeff Skilling is currently serving 24 years in prison. Did Enron do something drastically different? They lied on their financials, created assets and earnings out of thin air, and ultimately destroyed people’s jobs, pensions, investments, and lives. I suppose a Ponzi scheme may be considered a little worse, but still. I think the current financial environment is exacerbating people’s perception of this scandal. In no way am I condoning criminal behavior, but I just thought maybe we’re getting a little out of hand. My 2.
I think the Madoff issue hit home to a lot more people. Charities, Unions, Companies were impacted.
not hard enough people have killed or have been killed for sums of money of many orders of magnitude less
Do I feel the current financial environment is exacerbating people’s perception of this scandal? Perhaps. Do I feel that there are people who deserve stiffer penalties than this accountant? Sure. Do I feel sorry for this accountant? Absolutely not.
topher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So Madoff’s accountant, David Friehling, is > convicted and faces up to 105 years in prison. > Madoff faces up to 150 years. Does anyone think > the Madoff scandal is being blown out of > proportion? > > Think back to Enron. Jeff Skilling is currently > serving 24 years in prison. Did Enron do something > drastically different? They lied on their > financials, created assets and earnings out of > thin air, and ultimately destroyed people’s jobs, > pensions, investments, and lives. > > I suppose a Ponzi scheme may be considered a > little worse, but still. I think the current > financial environment is exacerbating people’s > perception of this scandal. In no way am I > condoning criminal behavior, but I just thought > maybe we’re getting a little out of hand. My 2. i wonder how many people those charities that lost their endownment could of helped. no, i say f’em, he’s nothing but a thief that breached the trus of his clients, i have more respect for drug dealers then liars and thieves.
drug dealers are bad. They influence the kids and force girls to become prostitutes
ancientmtk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > drug dealers are bad. They influence the kids and > force girls to become prostitutes yeah but ateast they’re honest about who they are and what they do.
I don’t know enough about the accountant’s role in the fraud to comment, but I do think that there is a bit of a witch trial sentiment here. I think madoff and his crummy accountant should get locked up for a nice long while, but 105 years seems a little steep for the accountant. I think that those responsible for the economic catastrophe are more than happy to hide behind the madoff smoke screen for a while.
I’m fine with the death penalty for financial crimes > 1B. Otherwise the high probability of mega payout on the crime exceeds the probability/severity of punishment. 1) Okay if I sell a bunch of crappy CDS I 100% know we'll get a bunch of premium dollars, but never be able to pay the claims if things go bad, therefore 100% chance I'll get rich \*now\* and only 10% I'll get caught later cause I'll be long gone, and even if I do only 50% chance I'll do jail time. Decision = go for it. 2) Okay if I sell a bunch of crappy CDS I 100% know we'll get a bunch of premium dollars, but never be able to pay the claims if things go bad, therefore 100% chance I'll get rich \*now\* but if I get caught there is a 100% chance I'll be dead. Decision = f#% no way. Nobel prize here I come.
purealpha Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m fine with the death penalty for financial > crimes > $1B. What if it involves exchange rates and it oscillates above and below $1B? : )
sublimity Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > purealpha Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I’m fine with the death penalty for financial > > crimes > $1B. > > What if it involves exchange rates and it > oscillates above and below $1B? : ) Should the cutoff not also be adjusted yearly to account for inflation?
Will give incentive for further manipulation, lol.
topher Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So Madoff’s accountant, David Friehling, is > convicted and faces up to 105 years in prison. > Madoff faces up to 150 years. Does anyone think > the Madoff scandal is being blown out of > proportion? > > Think back to Enron. Jeff Skilling is currently > serving 24 years in prison. Did Enron do something > drastically different? They lied on their > financials, created assets and earnings out of > thin air, and ultimately destroyed people’s jobs, > pensions, investments, and lives. > > I suppose a Ponzi scheme may be considered a > little worse, but still. I think the current > financial environment is exacerbating people’s > perception of this scandal. In no way am I > condoning criminal behavior, but I just thought > maybe we’re getting a little out of hand. My 2. I have only two words for in regards to your point: ‘Fu@K’ and ‘You.’
Do the crime do the time. Can’t say I feel sorry for Madoff and Co. at all. This guy is a freak show.
Well we can get many different opinions here, but the bottomline is, who the **** cares? Both of them stay in prison for rest of their lives. Who feels sorry for them? I wouldn’t even feel sorry if they get hanged for DELIBERATELY stealing people’s money.
I’d say Enron was worse. The blowup of a publicly traded stock held by a lot of little people including its employees who bought it at the urging of mgmt is worse than a blowup of a fund catering to the elite, pension funds and charities who have the resources and scale to conduct DD on their investments.
In cases of massive fraud like these, when you get to a certain level of immoral behavior disagreeing over who is worse is rather pointless. Life in a maximum security prison seems fitting for both crimes. I hope they show the same strictness to those running the social security administration when their Ponzi scheme, which dwarf’s Madoff’s, fails.
I have absolutely no sympathy for Madoff, and if they gave him the death penalty, I wouldn’t blink an eye- and as purealpha mentioned, it would deter a lot of would be scam artists. I watched some of the documentaries profiling this case, and one of the victims was a 70 year old man who worked his entire life to amass a fortune of 10MM. Then in the blink of an eye, he’s broke, and has ‘enough cash for 60 days’. Sure he shouldn’t have had all his money in one fund, but when you’re getting consistent double digit returns, it’s hard to settle for less. As for the other point (that may not have been mentioned here), that since he turned himself in, he should receive leniency, that is a crock. He turned himself in as in a month or two his scam would have been revealed to everyone due to the market crash.
ancientmtk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > drug dealers are bad. They influence the kids and > force girls to become prostitutes That’s bull. I have know a few drug dealers in my life and the didn’t influence kids or force people in prostitution. I am sure some of their drugs got into the hands of kids and some people who took their drug became addicts. People who are of low moral fiber will often do things together, so people who would deal drugs are more likely to force girls to become prostitutes but they are not the same thing. Madoff is worse than a drug dealer.
Bankin’ Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I hope they show the same strictness to those > running the social security administration when > their Ponzi scheme, which dwarf’s Madoff’s, fails. Well said! A $50 trillion fraud vs a $50 billion fraud…no contest.