And so the Donald was asked when exactly was America great again – and he skipped over the Reagan years …u know the drill… but do YOU feel that America was great when as it was as portrayed in Mad Men (misogynistic and all)? Did the lady on the ready to take Don Draper’s coat and hat stir an (unfortunately hidden) desire in you? It did for me and I need to assauge that guilt trip!!!
TD:LR If you don’t know about Mad Men, please move on!
I think American (perhaps western culture in general) is going though an awkward in between phase from what it used to be to the the society it will become. As a woman with almost no inclinations toward classic female gender role crap, it pains me to say, I can see the value of a culture based on organized and traditional gender roles. In the traditional society of the recent past, the accepted role of family formation and child raising was the foundation because we lived in an economy where growth of population = health of nation. So, that is what you did… you got married and rasied a family… end of story. I think that story line will change in the society we are headed toward. I think the society of the future will be based on a smaller, yet higher quality and more efficient population. The welfare of the nation will rest less on populaiton replacement/ growth, and more on the full development of each individual. In such a society gender roles would be a hinderance of that goal.
Meanwhile, women are the clear winners in this confused time. We demand equal pay and opportunities, but still expect men to open doors, pay for dinner, and otherwise act as if we are the weaker sex. Ha… win win. (I don’t agree however, I open doors for my male dates, and pay for things when I can sneak it in)
It depends on definition. But to me, what makes America “great” is:
Best democratic process, free speech, and political discussion (better than almost any other country).
Best socioeconomic opportunity for the top 10% of people, in terms of effort or talent (I have no problem working harder than 90% of people).
Best innovation, technology, and economic versatility.
Best education and enrichment opportunities for the top 10% of people.
Best exporter of culture, media, and global influence.
Plus maybe some other things. Before some people (i.e. our friends from up north) complain about healthcare or the country being married to guns and religion, yes there are some downsides - nowhere is perfect. The overall evaluation just depends on your personal values.
I believe Trump’s evaluation has more to do with the country’s absolute position as #1 in the world in economy and military power. This cannot be defended for too long, given China’s growth.
Edit: I don’t think Mad Men was supposed to portray the country or characters as “great” in most ways. In fact, the show focused on the very dysfunctional lives of the characters and their dysfunctional relationships with one another.
huh?
Good post. The fact that you had to qualify two of the five reasons that America is great as only being for the top 10% is the nub of the issue. The US has the best education and healthcare systems in the world if you are wealthy. But if you are in the middle or lower wealth deciles it is poor to very poor.
Trump’s core vote is lower educated whites. People who are not in the top 10% or anywhere close to it. For them, America is not such a great place to live. How Trump would actually improve their quality of life is an open question of course.
I think the 90s was when America was great. I believe the peak was likely right before 2003, namely OIF, which results in a US more hesitant to use military force and unilateralism (or what the Republicans call “leadership”), and the decade marked by the inevitable rise of emerging nations like China. The US will still be the most powerful but the gap between the US and ROW should continue to shrink and there is nothing anybody can do about it.
Huh, I think OP just wanted us to divulge in his fetish for subservient women but made the mistake of disguising it in a PC discussion on the greatest of America so he wouldn’t feel weird about it. Now everyone is giving their serious disretation on American Greatness ignoring OP’S original intention. Thats AF for you. Serious when you want amusement… sarcasm and nonsence when you are trying to be academic.
The last paragraph you mention is nothing new, Esther Vilar was writing about it in the 1970s. I think women are shooting themselves in the foot though demanding equal gender roles and essentially depolarizing the gender norms. My gf essentially left a country that was behind in women’s rights - not as bad as say Saudi Arabia but perhaps equal to the 1950’s American women - and came to the US seeking equality as a whole. Yet, and she jokes about this all the time, she says im very similar to the men and their thinking of that country (i admit I can be a misogynist). I pay for everything, i always drive, if we are cooking dinner I wont do anything but prepare the meat, i get what i want with sex, etc. I honestly think this is the best way otherwise it puts women in the position of having a masculine essence and it ruins everything. The key, imo, is respect and integrity. The 1950s mad men didnt respect their women and thus wouldnt allow them to persue their ambitions. There was no integrity because of their adulterous ways.
Kmeriwether - gender will never be invisible or a hindrance or a construct. Our species is sexually dimorphic, men and women will always have different roles.
Everyone looks back and thinks it was much better in the 50’s, 60’s, etc…It wasn’t. America was locked in a Cold War with the Soviets (a country that was a legit threat), crime was steadily increasing until the late 90’s, Vietnam, civil rights…all that sucked.
America is now the World’s only superpower. Terrorism sucks but it’s not a legit threat to US citizens (better chance to dying by getting hit on the head by a coconut while vacationing on beach. Crime is actually low and declining. Civil rights continue to progress in the right direction. The War on Drugs is all but over (the good guys won), and the Internet provides free Pron.
America is great. It’s still the country people emigrate to when they want a better life for their children. Do we have flaws? Sure. But they’re mostly exaggerated and exasperated by the 24 hour news cycle.
Yes, this only works for me, and perhaps other people here because we are willing to work harder than 90% of people. I am not saying other people are lazy - they just have different priorities with respect to life quality. A winner-take-all system is the best for people with our sort of life/work priorities. Again, I’m not saying this is better or worst than other people. It’s just a different balance and values system.
Trump’s proposals for increasing standards of living for middle class Americans mostly revolve around labor protectionism and repealling trade agreements. I do not think that this is the way to make America more great.
my thoughts exactly. He may as well have just said I love 'Murica (before women had rights)
I respect this set up if both people are into it. I think it is important however, that society in general let women know they can choose. I would be MISERABLE in a set up like that (Except that part about the bedroom… that’s kinda hot). I would miserable because my particular talents and character traits would thrive in a role similar to a typical man’s role and it would suck being forced to take on a role that I would be bad at when I know I can be much greater.
That’s not sexist. That’s just looking out for the safety of others.
I certainly don’t deny that. A few years ago I though… I wanna be a carpenter! So, I did Habitat for Humanity for a couple months in the dead of winter and wanted to kill myself! I hate lifting heavy crap! I hate power tools. I’m just not built for it and, on average, women aren’t. But, as our society becomes more intellectually and technologically driven, these differences mean less to nothing. It is important 1/2 of out population is not wasted as a resource because they think their role is just to serve men. Why don’t we all serve each other… awwww 
Why do you assume so? While physical strength may matter less in the future, we have evolved to our current state from a world where it did matter and our behavior reflects that. Plus the differences between men and women go beyond just strength.
I think the differences beyond strength and physical build are nurture rather than nature… what good does it do to recognize them? Women are supposed to be more nurturing… but I hate nurturing! Who cares what the differences are supposed to be, because the aspects they encompass do not trandsend personal life and personal choices. Roles in society should not be influenced by gender. Roles of personal identity might be.
Then you must be a good actress. Not to be crass, but you’re a stripper. Aside from being good looking, your job is to nuture men, preferably while topless.
Say what? Stripping = nurturing??? Huh?
Yeah…stripping is nurturing. Maybe not to the stripper, but I bet a significant section of her clientele.