Only if you think that the point of the CFA program is only to learn some body of knowledge for some brief time. I hope that all these universities do start offering the progam in this wildly excessive hand-holding way. Having a CFA charter will mean not much and I’ll introduce a JDV Charter that really will mean something. Then I’ll license it out to universities and devalue it to make money so that someone else can come along and make something that matters.
Why pay for the combo when you can do the CFA for virtually nothing and then pay for an MBA?
wwwwwoooo there myreturn008, let’s not get carried away comparing Macquarie to Oxford and LBS!! Putting that minor brain-spasm aside… people embark on the CFA journey for a whole lot of different reasons. Most fresh grads do it to get a job in equity research or similar - or to get out of the BO. I’m just guessing, but Joey may have done it to help shift from maths professor/PhD into funds/risk/quant - in the same way that a lot of engineers do an MBA to get into general management or consulting. So it really depends on your own situation and where you are heading. In your previous post you said you already had quals in accounting, finance and stats. If you are primarily after a graduate finance qualification then the Macquarie MAF is as good as any in Aust (I have a good hands-on knowledge of many courses in many unis here). Outside Aust in the major Asian centres (Sing, HK, Tokyo, Dubai, Mumbai) - UK/US degrees are generally more highly regarded (don’t give too much weight to the fancy Macquarie marketing brochures!). + you would be aware of the particularly bad name Macq has in Singapore due to their disastrous pull-out there last year. Has generally soured their name across the region. But in Aust it is still ok. So, if you primarily want a graduate finance degree for an Australian job - then do the Macq MAF. To give you the benefit of the doubt, I guess you’re saying to yourself - “hey, I’m going to get the finance degree and I have a good background in accounting/finance/stats, so it will probably be not much more work to get the CFA”. Probably true. But if you’re primary aim is to get the CFA, then don’t bother with the MAF - get good experience instead - will count for much more to most employers. Or do the Macq MBA - first class reputation but only in Australia. (you’ll realise from this thread that nobody outside Aust has heard of Macq - despite what the fancy marketing spin at Macq will tell you!) (sorry to ramble a bit - but you didn’t give much info in your posts - background, experience, qualifications, goals, location, work, etc) I’m off now… good luck
null&nuller Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > wwwwwoooo there myreturn008, >> I’m just guessing, but Joey may have done it to > help shift from maths professor/PhD into > funds/risk/quant - in the same way that a lot of > engineers do an MBA to get into general management > or consulting. > Yep and I found it very valuable… >
So did I. Joey’s opinions reminds me of my world view when I was in my early twenties when I and several of my mates felt entitled of a certain stature due to our Engineering and Physics “pedigree”. Of course, I have grown up since then. Anyways, good luck to the OP. JoeyDVivre Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > null&nuller Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > wwwwwoooo there myreturn008, > >> I’m just guessing, but Joey may have done it > to > > help shift from maths professor/PhD into > > funds/risk/quant - in the same way that a lot > of > > engineers do an MBA to get into general > management > > or consulting. > > > Yep and I found it very valuable… > >
Thank you for all your input.
would CFA chart be useful and add lots weight to CV if i want to step into corporate finance world? I have been working as accountant for 3 years and holding a CPA chart,however never been really working in finance industry. I have acedamic qual in finance by the way. What to do?!! also my question two: MAF from Melbourne U or Macq U, which one is more industry recognised?
I don’t think the Macquarie MAF program should be referred to as simply a ‘prep’ course for the CFA. True, it is ‘possible’ to cover ~70% of the CBOK vis a vis the MAF course, but only by selecting a precise assortment of elective subjects, which not everyone is there to do. Personally, I’ve signed up for the Macquarie MAF course this year, and i’m planning on also taking the Level 2 exam in June. Then again, the only reason i’m taking the CFA is “why the hell not?”. To me, the CFA seems like something everyone should have a go at, simply because of its low price and lack of a transcript. If I fail this year, so what - I’ll study a little bit and have a go next year. Anyone who’s taking the MAF course simply as a lead-up to the CFA is kidding themselves. Quit the foreplay and just get stuck into the CFA i reckon. Hey, for those of you out there with far more experience than I - could you offer some support so I can see if I’m on the right track? My goal is a top level MBA in the states around 5 years from now. I’m doing the MAF at Macquarie with the aim of scoring a nice high GPA, to make up for my abysmal undergrad (finance) GPA. I’ve been working fulltime since Jan 07, first as an economist for 6 months, and thereafter since in an in-house strategy/M&A team (ASX top 20). Now doing simultaneous Masters/CFA in the late evenings. Would that look decent on a CV a couple years from now?
Vince Mancini Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So did I. Joey’s opinions reminds me of my world > view when I was in my early twenties when I and > several of my mates felt entitled of a certain > stature due to our Engineering and Physics > “pedigree”. Of course, I have grown up since > then. > > Anyways, good luck to the OP. > > > > > JoeyDVivre Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > null&nuller Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > wwwwwoooo there myreturn008, > > >> I’m just guessing, but Joey may have done it > > to > > > help shift from maths professor/PhD into > > > funds/risk/quant - in the same way that a lot > > of > > > engineers do an MBA to get into general > > management > > > or consulting. > > > > > Yep and I found it very valuable… > > > Gee that was a condescending thing to say. Got out one of those old paint brushes and tried it again did you? Too bad that it has nothing to do with anything I said.
Just a comment, one thing the CFA measures is your abulity to perform under pressure. I have some friends who put in the “required” hours, but could not perform on the tests. Diluting the curricula by offering it in a classroom format takes away a lot in my opinion. I am too familiar with the way grades are fudged in graduate schools to make everybody happy, with all the team assignments, case studies, classroom presentations, make-up exams and whatever other BS.
spot on mo34. I think too many students place too much weight on academic qualifications. Degrees are just a ticket to get in the game. What ticket you get helps determine where you get in the game. How you end up in say 20 years or 30 years later has zero correlation with how/where you first entered the game. There are plenty of Harvard MBA’s who end up with rich, plenty who end up poor, and some who end up in jail. What’s important is what you do once you’re in the game. As soon as you get a job nobody cares what sort of ticket you got in with. After a few years, performance and results count for everything and degrees count for virtually nothing. Look at the Forbes rich list (or in Australia look at the BRW rich list - 60% have no degrees at all.) If you think that is just a bunch of old guys with old money - look at the BRW Young Rich List 2007 - same stats - 60% have no degrees. And, of those with degrees, about half are completely unrelated to how they made their money. You wanna make money? - concentrate on the main game - don’t get degrees for the sake of it. One great advantage of the CFA is that you can do it while you are working on the main game - ie building real experience and getting results on the job and/or in the markets. So the Macquarie -v- Melbourne question is academic. I have hired many people from Macquarie and Melbourne over the years, but would say there is zero correlation between which uni they went to and actual career results. Far more important is what they actually did on the job. Once they get a job, most graduates soon realise just how little they actually learned from books. Both courses are regarded well, but doing the CFA + MAF is a waste of time, imho. Much better off getting CFA + real experience. Probably the only real use for a MAF is if you wanted to go on and get PhD in Finance, because the Masters is an academic degree while the CFA is not. (I’m not qualified to say whether a CFA charter is considered a Masters-level degree for the purpose of starting a PhD program, but I suspect it is not in most uni’s - but this is just a guess on my part). If you look at the pass rates for both Masters programs you will probably find that very few if any fail. With these high-fee courses “if you pays your money, you gets your degree”. Both Macq and Melb are very fee driven. If you do fail, you just get it re-graded until they pass you. (just anecdotal evidence, but lots of it over many years). There’s so much “soft” stuff like scores for class participation, collaborative projects, shared assignments, etc that it’s very hard to fail. I personally have never heard of anyone being kicked out for failiing either Macquarie or Melb MAF. Perhaps you ask both unis for pass rates over the past x years. I bet they give you some spin on how high the pass rate is (but I doubt if they give you any numbers) - they just want your money! On the other hand, the pass rate for CFA is something like 40-sh% for each year. Only about 10-12% get though all 3 levels the first time. cheers.
to null&nuller: You have the key point. Thank you for your suggestion !! very inspiring and important. for my situation is a bit strange because i didn’t take the graduate role in finance after graduation instead I worked as accountant for three years since. do i completely miss the train? a career agent recently put me down claiming there is no chance for me to step in finance industry even if i manage to pass all levels of CFA, because i have no real experience. i beg he is not all wrong? couple of years later holding the CFA chart with no real experience would only allow me to start as junior in finance again!! would a $75k earner willing to work as junior in finance only getting $50K less? i will say this is the question i need to ask myself. is there any way out? if i really persist?
I don’t understand your assumption that accounting is not relevant experience for finance roles. I don’t know what sort of accounting you do, but it must be relevant in some way… sounds like you’re talking to the wrong recruiter. If you’re in an accounting firm, tell them you’re doing the CFA and ask them what it takes to be transferred to the corp fin dept. If you’re in a a small firm, can you shift to a larger firm with a corp fin dept?, with the aim of starting off in accounting, then moving across to corp fin after a year or so. There are lots of ways in - you need to narrow it down to specifically what sort of role you want, then talk to lots of people to find out what quals/experience is required and what you need to do to make the shift. Taking a drop in salary is not the issue. You work to for knowledge, not salary. Much more important is what you are learning. Many people take a drop in salary from time to time to get better roles where they learn more. good luck…
null&nuller , thanks for the quick response. I am a corporate accountant in an ASX 20 company, never work at accounting firm… so does this mean its even worse? 
I guess the only cross of corporate accounting and corporate finance is the knowledge & skills in producing and analysing financial statement and accounts and cash flows & ratios when looking at some possible M & A… i have a feeling i am completely in wrong track? is it worthwhile for me to start doing CFA learning, using it as tool to step in this industry?
cpapeng, with all due respect, it sounds like you don’t have a clear plan/direction. CFA is a huge commitment to take on just to see if you like it or to see what sort of job it might lead to, or have some vague idea that it might lead to a corporate finance role. If I were you I would spend some time clarifying exactly where you are now, exactly where you want to go, and exactly what you need to do to get there. Since you say you’re in an ASX20 company: - 9 are banks/insurers + 2 are huge property finance groups - all have huge corp fin operations - go and talk to them and see what they say - 5 Resources - very deal driven with large internal corp finance depts - talk to HR about what skills they need - the rest are industrials (WOW, WES, CSR, TLS) - all are huge groups with large internal corp finance shops. Each one does dozens of deals each year - acquisitions, spin-offs, equity issues, debt refinancings, hedges, etc, etc. They use outside help of course, but the deals are initiated and driven by the internal people - go talk to them! (ps if you’re in TLS - get out!!!) talk to lots of people - come up with a clear plan - take action ! (sorry to sound negative - but you’re surrounded by a sea of opportunity!)
sorry sorry null&nuller, forget the truth i am an accountant, its ASX50. sad for me. i am confused with ways to step in , but i do have a clear direction of what i want to do once i am in the game, it will be CF M & A, IPO so you think i should begin with CFA instead of MAF? at the meanwhile i should keep trying talk to people & seek for any openings?
Im currently doing the MAppFin at Finsia (for the Aussie’s here) and studying for CFA too. I don’t care what anyone says here, having the MAppFin and CFA on my resume (when i eventually achieve them) will be gold on my resume in a few years!
B’oath, good work Fremantle
FINSIA is good - just as good as Macq or Melb, imo. + more practical link up to PS146 standards. (I did Finsia, plus was founding CEO & co-owner of Tribeca Learning btw.) BTW: Finsia Education now owned by Kaplan, which also owns Schweser - small world ! Finsia course is not specifically or directly built around CFA curriculum (more built around regulatory requirements - ie ASIC, PS146, AFSL). But I’m sure you are finding it a great help with CFA. Many topics are approached from a different angle, which is a good thing - you get to see how things fit together, and applied differently, especially in local context. go the dockers…! cheers
GO the dockers! I was from Perth as well 