Mobius Striptease Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > you need study stats if you are looking for a way > to get knowledge with a wide range of practical > applications. some dudes here think stats is just > “learning some SAS”. that’s the understatement of > the year. where’s JDV the stats phd to key on > this? advanced probability theory and statistics > is an extremely deep and far-reaching branch of > mathematics and most pure math majors even in grad > school just scratch the surface and think running > a linear regression = stats. their opinion is a > joke. pixel is a joke. > > some ppl said stochastic calc is needed for a > career in math finance, and learn stats on the > side. i agree with the first part of the statement > but not with the second. study statistics, learn > stochasitc calc on the side if you need to and > have interest in it. this approach provides a much > broader base of knowledge with various > applications in many directions, and a > concentration in an area of choice such as > stochastic calc. Off-course statistics is not SAS. But SAS has all you need to know for financial applications. No one is going to pay you to re-invent the wheel. Plus, going to school for a math degree will require him to learn programming as a side product (most probably C++).
So no bid for MFE / FM?
Hello Mister Walrus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > So no bid for MFE / FM? MFE/FM is good if you want to work as a quant (IB, Hedge Fund) but top banks usually recruit PhD’s for those roles, MS maths and Stats degrees could be used for data mining/data analyst sort of roles. I have recently seen some people doing MS in artificial intelligence which is another upcoming field in research.
mo34 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > > Off-course statistics is not SAS. But SAS has all > you need to know for financial applications. No > one is going to pay you to re-invent the wheel. > > Plus, going to school for a math degree will > require him to learn programming as a side product > (most probably C++). i agree with you mo34, programming is critical. i just think a masters in stats is a broader base for someone who intends to work in the industry and is looking for ways to make himself marketable by acquiring skills applicable in practice. plus, there’s a lot more to stats than just learning to use SAS, even on the masters level. i think stochastic calculus degree is more narrowly focused
Black Swan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I am considering either a masters degree in > mathematics or statistics. I was wondering if > some of you quantatively oriented individuals > could expound on the differences between the two > feilds (I’ve always viewed them as somewhat > similar) as well as the types of jobs either could > lead to within the finance realm and their general > usefulness or lack thereof. Lets not get side > tracked into PhD vs MS territory please. Thanks > in advance for all your help. What’s going on Swan, how are things? I thought you were considering the Marines following the Level III Pass?
Wait, so people get degrees in stochastic calculus?
Hello Mister Walrus Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Wait, so people get degrees in stochastic > calculus? yeah whatever financial math
pimpineasy Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > no my point is that numerous court cases and > politcal polls have made conclusions based on > seemingly sound statistical theory …the oj > case was an example of this … That doesn’t support your point. It’s like saying since someone couldn’t multiply 2 and 2, the field of mathematics is flawed. For example, there was a case about an man who was falsely convicted of assault and robbery after a professor of statistics calculated the probability of the the crime being committed by someone else as being significantly low (something like 1 in 10,000,000). The professor erroneously multiplied a bunch of events assuming independence. The professor was obviously flawed and not statistics itself.
Slash Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > pimpineasy Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > no my point is that numerous court cases and > > politcal polls have made conclusions based on > > seemingly sound statistical theory …the > oj > > case was an example of this … > > That doesn’t support your point. It’s like saying > since someone couldn’t multiply 2 and 2, the field > of mathematics is flawed. For example, there was a > case about an man who was falsely convicted of > assault and robbery after a professor of > statistics calculated the probability of the the > crime being committed by someone else as being > significantly low (something like 1 in > 10,000,000). The professor erroneously multiplied > a bunch of events assuming independence. The > professor was obviously flawed and not statistics > itself. aaaah i agree… but the point is that most of these mistakes werent really mistakes at all…
Bankin’ Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Black Swan Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I am considering either a masters degree in > > mathematics or statistics. I was wondering if > > some of you quantatively oriented individuals > > could expound on the differences between the > two > > feilds (I’ve always viewed them as somewhat > > similar) as well as the types of jobs either > could > > lead to within the finance realm and their > general > > usefulness or lack thereof. Lets not get side > > tracked into PhD vs MS territory please. > Thanks > > in advance for all your help. > > > What’s going on Swan, how are things? I thought > you were considering the Marines following the > Level III Pass? Yeah, up until a couple weeks ago I really wasn’t sure which way I’d go on the Marines vs Finance decision. But I got a job I’m content with (but not thrilled about) and a really nice living arangement at 3rd and Market in Philadelphia so I figured I’d ride this wave for a little and see where it takes me. Still haven’t completely axed the core.
Mobius Striptease Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > you need study stats if you are looking for a way > to get knowledge with a wide range of practical > applications. some dudes here think stats is just > “learning some SAS”. that’s the understatement of > the year. where’s JDV the stats phd to key on > this? advanced probability theory and statistics > is an extremely deep and far-reaching branch of > mathematics and most pure math majors even in grad > school just scratch the surface and think running > a linear regression = stats. their opinion is a > joke. pixel is a joke. > > some ppl said stochastic calc is needed for a > career in math finance, and learn stats on the > side. i agree with the first part of the statement > but not with the second. study statistics, learn > stochasitc calc on the side if you need to and > have interest in it. this approach provides a much > broader base of knowledge with various > applications in many directions, and a > concentration in an area of choice such as > stochastic calc. Apparently they also need to teach reading comprehension in the CFA. I never said anything about either one being more useful, and I never said anything about linear regression = stats. A lot of schools don’t even have separate departments for math and stats - they simply have a “Mathematics & Statistics” Department, so there’s a lot of overlap. You can get a master’s in math and still learn probability theory (with a measure theoretic flavor), stochastic processes, stochastic calculus, etc. Conversely, you can learn stochastic calculus in MS Stats. All I said was that you have to know what you want to go into. A stats degree would be more useful for quantitative trading, while a math degree would be more useful for positions that require knowledge about asset pricing. But depending on the school, it many not even be an issue, given the overlap in material. Having said that, a masters degree typically isn’t sufficient, unless it’s an MFE that’s designed specifically to prepare you for entering the workforce. A PhD is ideal though. Even MFE doesn’t guarantee a pure quant role.
i studied statistics at a fairly high level as a math undergrad it’s all completely useless to me in corporate finance the basic statistical concepts that i do use are handled almost entirely by computer software
Do you intend to work in Finance in the future? If so then an MFE or MFM would be the best way to go in my opinion - as already suggested by the first respondent. A pure Mathematics masters may be more useful if you intend to do a Phd afterwards but otherwise I wouldn’t bother.
That’s a tough question, Black Swan. My brother is currently doing his undergrad in math and he asked my advise on specialization. Even though I got masters in financial math (stochastic calculus), I think it might be more practical for him to specialize in time series analysis (financial econometrics). With that said, I think it’s important to choose a program that will also give you good overall math foundation. Different branches of math are very interconnected and it’s often useful to look at the same problem from different perspectives. For example, a stochastic process can be considered a time series of random variables or a distribution of paths or an infinite dimensional random variable, etc. An optimization problem can be looked at either anlytically (functional maximization) or geometrically (ellipsoids, planes, etc) and clearly picturing what happens geometrically can make it obvious whether solution is unique or not just based on convexity of geometric figures. To summarize: I would suggest a masters program that gives good math background and focuses on time series analysis.
I hope you make a decision that makes you happy Swan. Your level of drive and ambition is impressive.
QuantJock_MBA Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I hope you make a decision that makes you happy > Swan. > > Your level of drive and ambition is impressive. Thanks QuantJock, I appreciate the compliment, but I’m not really sure what I did to deserve it.
math quant vs stat quant ? According to Fund of Funds analyst Fred Gehm, “There are two types of quantitative analysis and, therefore, two types of quants. One type works primarily with mathematical models and the other primarily with statistical models. While there is no logical reason why one person can’t do both kinds of work, this doesn’t seem to happen, perhaps because these types demand different skill sets and, much more important, different psychologies”
so what are you deterministic (maths) or realistic(stats) ?
d0pa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > so what are you deterministic (maths) or > realistic(stats) ? Not sure how you can claim stats is realistic given the rediculous assumptions of distributive normality and reliance on stationarity via historical components underlying most time series work.
Also remember that a good MFE programme will include classes in economics and finance theory, usually shared with students on MS Finance and other similar courses. An Msc Math will not. If you want to use this as a crossover from a Math/Stat undergrad into a finance environment, that will help.