I call BS.
I don’t call BS on the H/S/W part, but I’m certain that he has a remarkable back story that he’s not fessing up to.
Man, tough crowd in here - you all hear what you want to hear. You want me to tell you everyone who gets into HBS/Stanford is a genius and astronaut with a supermodel girlfriend? Is that what you guys want to hear?
It’s not true. And hoenstly, if I thought how you guys think - that its’ near impossible and you need a “remarkable back story”, I would of listened to all the haters saying I couldn’t get in, that it was too hard, I’m not smart enough yada yada - and never applied. For your information, I don’t have a “remarkable back story”. My family is not affiliated with any of the schools (I’m not a legacy). My parents are middle class. I worked at non bulge bracket investment banks before business school. I had a 3.4 GPA from a non-ivy (small libreral arts school). GMAT 720. I’m not sure what else to tell you. I played sports in college maybe? HBS and Stanford supposedly like athletes? What I did have was great recommendations - haven’t you heard Stanford admissions say, “we don’t care what you did, we just care that you did it well and to the best of your abilities”. Add great essays and good enough test scores - an overall solid, thoughtful application.
You can call BS all you want - I lived in 6 soldiers field park on campus at HBS. It is the older brick looking building right next to one western (the white tower and the cool bridge looking structure). Do you want me to tell you which classroom I was in RC year in Aldrich (I don’t remember - 108 maybe)?
I was just trying to correct what I feel is an inaccurate, and quite pessimistic attitude about admission into business school. Check the other post “Debt worth a top 3 MBA?” thread - I tried to share how I approached my applications. I’m not saying it’s the perfect way to approach it, but it worked for me and others. Again, you don’t need a 760+ GMAT score. This is right from Dee Leopold’s mouth - she heads admissions at HBS. Yeah, if you’re applying wit a 2.8 GPA and you score a 790 GMAT, yeah it helps, but as I detailed in the other thread - there is so much more that is weighted for the top schools, namely ESSAYS + RECS. So again, I respectfully disagree with your blanket statement: “if you’re a white/indian/chinese male that wants to attend a top U.S. school, you’ll need to score in the 99th percentile (760+)”. That is completely false. If you don’t want to believe me that’s fine - your loss. But I know plenty of classmates that did not “KILL” the GMAT and got into HBS and other elite schools - even one girl who got in off the waiting list with a high 600 score.
Take a step back and look how you are thinking about things. You might as well go to the Business Week forums and ask the typical “HI, I have a 3.8 from an IVY, Goldman 2 year analyst experience, and a 780 GMAT - what are my chances of getting into Stanford”. Sounds about right doesn’t it? You’ll hear this same stupid line of thought at business school admissions events - somebody wil raise their hand at the Q&A and ask the same type of question. Notice the school rep will never say “Yeah, you’ll DEF get in”. Wendy, with your statement, you’re sounding very similar to this line of thinking.
Man, you guys are so negative/pessimistic it astounds me! Regardless, I’d be happy to help any of you who have genuine questions on the process.
And Wendy - to address your stement on giving people hope, yes the applicant has to believe they have a shot to get in. It doens’t mean totally disregard the percentages - they are low, but understand how to truly put your best foot forward in an application. You’d be surprised how many people DON’T do this - either half ass the essays, don’t have good recs, etc. Or worse, completely rely on their high GPA from IVY, high GMAT scores and TPG Capital work experience to get in and half ass the entire application (these people get rejected too).
Agree with passme - manhattan GMAT were by far the best books, especially for quant and sentence correction. I would stay away from Kaplan and PR - they didnt cover high-end questions/topics (permutations and combinations were nowhere - Manhattan GMAT covers this stuff and how to do it quickly) and I found their practice questions to be poorly worded and confusing sometimes. Don’t even consider class if you are shooting for 700+ - the problem with class is you pay all this money and are with other students that are shooting for much lower scores so you end up focusing on mid-tier and not harder questions.
Also really important to get the OG (official guide) for practice. Study with Manhattan GMAT - apply tecniques to OG and ONLY OG questions. The OG is really important - do all the quesitons you can and study the ones you get wrong.
Great words of encouragement, wangta01. I would have taken GMAT earlier but I was told by some admission consultants that it’s almost impossible for ‘me’ to get into any of the top 10 MBA programs (even with 3.5+ CGPA, lots of good extra-curricular activities and reasonable work exp) and below that MBA isn’t worth it since I’ll be needing work visa. So I didn’t even feel the motivation take GMAT until few of my friends got accepted in good schools. Now I’ve learned that unless I try, there is no sure way to know if I can make it to Top 10 or not.
Other folks already working at investment banks with a solid athletic and academic record from Amherst/Bowdoin/Middlebury/Swarthmore/Tufts/Wesleyan/Williams/etc should find inspiration in your story.
The more typical MBA applicant however shouldn’t extrapolate your situation to theirs.
I totally believe that. I was specifically addressing all of the dudes on the forum.
Yikes. Thanks for the input, all.
Maybe I’ll just open up a Bed n’ Breakfast…
Wendy - it seems you already have your beliefs and refuse, for any reason, to deviate from them. This whole debate started because I don’t believe your way of thinking is right - you told me to prove you wrong, and I’ve given you my personal story, which is not that different from other succesful applicants, yet that stil isn’t good enough. Thing is, you only really realize this is the way MOST people get into schoosl until you actually ATTEND the school. You start talking to your classmates about the whole process and find out you weren’t as crazy as everybody said you were. Until then, most people think the way you think - you gotta be super special to get in H/S/W/C, etc.
I’m done addressing any of your commentary - you simply always find ways to make exceptions to successful examples and suggestions, and then revert back to your beliefs on the “typical MBA applicant”. Wendy - one thing I didn’t mention, the appicant has to believe in themself and have the confidence to apply and lay it all the line with no excuses. By excuses I mean, “Ah I could of done better on my essays” etc. Put your very best application in and if you don’t get in, you don’t get in - no excuses - you did your best. How many people do you know that do that in anything in life? Most people make some stupid excuse when they fail. The phrase that I repeated to myself throughout the entire MBA application process was: “Why not me? Why not now?”. You have to believe you can do it and disregard all the haters who are afraid to do it themselves or think it’s impossible. I assume from your commentary, you think of yourself as a “lowly engineer”? Why would anyone accept you if you think that of yourself? Are you simply trying to convince yourself why you shouldn’t even try or mentally prepare yourself so you feel better should you try and fail?
Yeah…that’s usually how it works. Everyone says you can’t, then by some miracle, someone that you know that “shouldn’t have gotten in”, gets into a great school and you’re shocked and saddened that you didn’t try. Then you start to believe maybe it’s more than just GPAs, GMAT scores, etc, and start thinking “why the hell not me?” and really dig into the admissions process. Given your “stats” and the fact you’re international (I assume that’s why you need work visa?), I think you’d have a great shot assuming you put work into your application. Think about this - you only need to get into ONE school. You can get rejected out of 8 schools but get into ONE and you’re still golden.
Columbia - they have early admission. It makes a big difference and IS easier to get in versus their rolling admissions.
Dartmouth/Tuck - also has early admission. I know someone that got into Tuck ED with a 2.7 GPA and 710 GMAT. Yes they used an admisison consultant.
HBS/Stanford/Wharton - crapshoot unless you are a legacy. put a ton of effort into these apps if these are your dream schools.
Other great schools: Chicago, MIT/Sloan, Berkeley/Haas, UCLA/Anderson, NYU/Stern. I am missing a bunch.
Comeon man, you really think you can’t get into ONE school?
Here is another great book that I used during and before the process to plan: How to get into the Top MBA Programs by Richard Montauk. It’s on amazon for $20. 6th edition. It’s a big book but read - the sooner the better as it lays out the runway on planning for applications.
Also, word of caution on the admissions consultants. First, and i’m sure you know this, they can be really expensive. But if you get the right one, they can be really really helpful - especially if they know the school. Two, they can seem pessimistic - especially if you don’t have the “typical” background they are seeking. Think abut their position - they can pick and choose who they want to work with. They want to choose people so their success rate remains high. Don’t be discouraged by one admissions consultant that blows you off. Just search for another one.
Wendy, you kinda jumped around from the beginning.
First saying you needed 760+, then asking to be proven wrong by a <700.
Everybody has their own opinion, and that’s probably fine, because each case is tough to compare to another.
OP … to actually start I think you need the following:
1- understand the structure of the GMAT exam
2- compare between third party providers and choose one
3- know how many hours the exam needs and how many hours/week you can study
4- make a schedule and register for the exam
I want to start preparing for the GMAT as well, but waiting for level II results to decide
It’s DEFINITELY not about your race. I don’t think any Adcom would have any set of correlation standard between your race and your GMAT score. They look at your whole package, that’s why they always tell perspective applicants they don’t have a minimum GPA or GMAT score. I can bet that your genuine essays are more important than your race.