http://www.rotman.utoronto.ca/mfin/ I know there are alot of Toronto ppl on this board, has anyone looked into the merits of this program vs. their MBA program? UofT seems to be the best finance school of the bunch north of the border, and they state in the FAQ section that “because students study for the CFA in self-study (or in test-focused, time-compressed workshops and online programs), they are not able to learn, understand, and appreciate the underlying ideas, concepts, models, and relationships that drive modern business finance. The CFA sets the accepted minimum requirement for financial literacy, but it does not give students the career-advancing knowledge and skills required to become finance leaders.” Since this is a new program, I’m wondering if there is recognition in the industry. Is it considered to be better than an MBA if the interest is only finance (not management)?
I looked into this program in some detail and yes, on the surface, it seems pretty good. I mean it has to be: it’s U of T and Rotman is a pretty good school. That said…for $60,000 it [IMHO] amounted to CFAs level 4 and 5. Essentially, it’s a stripped down version of the MBA with more emphasis on finance and quantative analysis. I don’t know why they took the approach of “calling out” the CFA as though it were some competing, rather than complimentary designation but that’s what you get when you put profs in charge of business development. In any event, I’m sure it’s a great program…I just question why one would go there [Rotman] over schools like Carnegie Melon or any US school for that matter with a compairable offering. $60,000 is a lot for a Canadian MBA with the dollar where it currently is at. Willy
i think they mentioned CFA because they want to target those who feel that their CFA isn’t enough and this will add to it, which i think it will. 60k is a bit steep.
60K for a canadian school is very steep. I’d try for U of Chicago, Wharton or even Harvard before this…
60k is not only for this program, but all Rotman master’s programs. Are we saying then that Rotman is not worth the money? What about schulich MBA at $45K? How do admission requirements at these schools compare to the US schools mentioned above?
the thing is, the requirements to get into those Ivey league schools are problably much higher. I didin’t ask the M. fin students how mcuh they paid to get into the program. but from my understanding, all of the graduate programs that is academically focused (econ, eng, philsophy, poli sci, math, etc) was usually free in the way of scholarships.
I don’t know… $5,000 for the CFA, a couple of Excel courses and a few months on a Bloomberg terminal is all anyone really needs in my view. I just fail to see what these MBA and MSC or MFIN courses add in real life. I work with several of these “rhodes scholars” and you know what, a lot of them really don’t know what they are doing. Like they are just not that good. One comment about Wharton or Chicago that was made above is somewhat inaccuarate. Those two schools and U of T shouldn’t even be mentioned on the same SITE and their tuition spreads reflect this. I mean U of T is basically Canada’s top school and lets face it: no one cares about Canada. Wharton and U Chicago are two of the WORLDS top schools. Willy
I’m currently taking the MFin program at UofT. While $55,000 is pretty steep, it comparable to any UofT MBA, (the exec MBA is closer to $85,000). Also there is a lot of support from the school, with scholarships (I got $10,000) interest free loans for the full tuition amount and your tuition also includes text books and meals. You’re also paying for the convince of having a school so close to Bay St. Most of the students are already finance/investment professionals, (most of us our CFA charterholders already), and are not willing to quit/relocate/commute to a different school. As for the program it self, it seems very solid. You’ll be having John Hull as a prof, which is a huge positive. And I doubt too many people who want to work in investments or are currently working in investments would like know their tuition $’s are going to OB and Marketing classes. Which is one of the reason I decided to take this course instead of a MBA. I work on a But side fixed income desk, and all my co-workers already have their CFA’s & MBA’s already… and all of them are very supportive of this program, (the CFA alone isn’t enough nowadays to move into a senior position). While this program is new, so it will be interesting to see how much value the street puts on it, but I think the NPV will be positive.
WillyR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don’t know… > > $5,000 for the CFA, a couple of Excel courses and > a few months on a Bloomberg terminal is all anyone > really needs in my view. I just fail to see what > these MBA and MSC or MFIN courses add in real > life. I work with several of these “rhodes > scholars” and you know what, a lot of them really > don’t know what they are doing. Like they are just > not that good. > Willy, i think the more correct question is, “how much can the knowledge attained in graduate finance programs add?”. Though i was not a finance student, the econ classes that I did share with the Masters of Finance students were Econometrics, MicroEcon, Fin. Econ. strictly speaking from my experience, these courses were more grounded on theory then anything. nonetheless, it develops in a good student what I call “long range thinking”. graduate programs I believe are suppose to instill a more advance way of reasoning, or rather a more thorough method of examination. However, you would be lucky to find more then 30% that are actually Long Range thinkers. most do it for purposes other then knowledge and thereby miss the whole point. the ones that actually get it will problably get end in academia or so I think. Can the knowledge acquired add value? of course. disregard those that you feel did not live up to sword of knowledge, all they simply have is a piece of paper. however, you can acquire the same knowledge they can without having to pay simply by getting the same study materials for the course. sadly though, you won’t be able to tell people where you went and put that on a resume, but do you really need that?
I guess it can Frank. I just see young guys now a days making pretty big bets on a $60K or $70K degree. Why not spend $5,000 to get your CFA and put the rest towards some real estate. Or even take that modeling program at Marquee group for the full week. Might cost something like $1,500 but that’s a fly. Willy
WillyR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don’t know… > > $5,000 for the CFA, a couple of Excel courses and > a few months on a Bloomberg terminal is all anyone > really needs in my view. I just fail to see what > these MBA and MSC or MFIN courses add in real > life. I work with several of these “rhodes > scholars” and you know what, a lot of them really > don’t know what they are doing. Like they are just > not that good. > > One comment about Wharton or Chicago that was made > above is somewhat inaccuarate. Those two schools > and U of T shouldn’t even be mentioned on the same > SITE and their tuition spreads reflect this. I > mean U of T is basically Canada’s top school and > lets face it: no one cares about Canada. Wharton > and U Chicago are two of the WORLDS top schools. > > Willy Willyr , I have a question. What sort of financial modeling skillsets do you recon to be most crucial? I did two deal maven certs…one for financial modeling and one for LBO modeling. I’m getting the Wall street prep package and getting that also…
WillyR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I guess it can Frank. I just see young guys now a > days making pretty big bets on a $60K or $70K > degree. Why not spend $5,000 to get your CFA and > put the rest towards some real estate. Or even > take that modeling program at Marquee group for > the full week. Might cost something like $1,500 > but that’s a fly. > > Willy its simple. people want good or better jobs (I myself might be int hat situation in 3 years if nothing good happens). that’s the only reason anybody is willing to pay money to go to graduate school in most cases. if you’re doing it for academic reasons, its a free ride.
But can you not get the same benefit from working hard, being smart and just clawing your way to the top? Willy
frank, did you buy the kaplan online practice tests for the CAIA?
Trevor in T.O. …May i have your e-mail id? i have a few questions to ask you about the program. regards supercop
Willy, i sure hope you can get somewhere based on merit alone and not have to acquire a bunch of paper to proof that is so. But let me ask you this, if i still wanted to be an ibanker, what is my best bet? i was told MBA (at least for a top 5 bank). I think that is nonsense but i don’t make the rules. however, i think it depends on the type of job you’re going after. For investment management, i have feeling that you can do it based on merit since that job is based a lot on your performance. However, if you’re looking to be a prop. trader or soemthing of that sort, i think to get your foot in the door, those letters behind a name are more important. Stern, no i didn’t buy it. i sent the email about pooling money together but I got no response. how are you feeling? u in the best shape of your life?
Hi SuperCop, It’s email@example.com
Hey Guys, For wealth management/ private banking/ investment counselling would you think the u of t mba or the MFin is more beneficial?