Okay maybe I’m just being a spaz considering we have like 3 hours till the exam or whatever but here is my situation : I have a pre-law background (History Degree/ LSAT teacher). Worked as an IA for retail bank’s private client services. Currently work as an client admin at a private asset management/wealth management firm where I do in house research/set up accounts/talk to PM’s to trade the accounts right, etc. What do I want : Something closer to the market!!! All the interesting jobs I see require experience I don’t have. For instance, there are these Junior Trader positions which are like “Require XYZ familiarity and knowledge” and I’m like okay - I have that. And then “1-2 years trading experience” - well no I don’t have that obviously, that’s the whole point of the excercise. YES I have traded my own accounts, YES I follow the markets everyday but I don’ think that quite qualifies. So - here’s the question if you have been nice enough to read this far: What in sam hell do I do? I guess a portfolio admin job for a hedge fund would be good? trade operations? Basically I feel totally understimulated - but more importantly I want a job that if I AM there for like 2-3 years there will be a “next step” - I might as well have been here for 5 years, that junior trader job is just as far away. Is the Charter the key?! Should I try and get a Masters/Phd?! Is peak oil going to cause anarchy in 10 year?!? IS SKYNET GOING TO BECOME SELF AWARE IN 2011?!?! k plz disregard last two questions Thx
I dont think the CFA Charter is the key to you being a trader of any sort. I dont see a MBA/PHD being a key either. What you need is experience, in anything related, and to apply to positions and interview, its that simple. So go do something that executes trades, balances accounts, whatever it is that makes it possible to jump to what you want. What you need is someone to take a chance with you, which will eventually happen if you interview well and show that you can learn or have some sort of knowledge. Also, everyone with a BA/BS has a pre-law background.
Well I don’t see it as a KEY - but the traders I know who work closely with the analysts I know say it would be a big help. Think about how much you learn and how much dedication it shows you. What I do know is traders have WEIRD backgrounds - the best guy I know was a CPA. This is an institutional trader moving lots of money. And wtf no- not everyone has a pre-law background with a bachelors - I taught the LSAT for a year and went to law school for a year before I realized I hated the profession.
does that make you any closer to being a lawyer than Joe the English major? Other than some credits that will expire most likely? Its like saying I am pre-med cuz I took chemistry. Just stop. Secondly, why dont you do the most obvious thing in the fricking world? You talk about the traders and analysts that you know…why dont you ask them for help? I think you would be amazed at doors that might open if you enlisted them for help, to keep an eye open, to vouch for you, etc etc. Saying that your background is weird and therefore should be a fit to be a trader is ridiculous. And yes education is great and can help, but you really wanna come out as an MBA/PhD and be looking at jobs that are entry frickin level still? Degrees don’t replace experience.
…AND dude I know just passed level one as is a fixed income junior trader now - forgot to add that. Maybe I should just focus my energy on the CFA, see where it takes me and worry about this all post Dec 6
tvPM Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > does that make you any closer to being a lawyer > than Joe the English major? Other than some > credits that will expire most likely? Its like > saying I am pre-med cuz I took chemistry. Just > stop. Where did you learn to read. TAKING Chemistry and teaching the MCAT, getting into Med school, spending a year there are not the same thing. The resume shows a law career path. So no, YOU stop. > > Secondly, why dont you do the most obvious thing > in the fricking world? You talk about the traders > and analysts that you know…why dont you ask them > for help? I think you would be amazed at doors > that might open if you enlisted them for help, to > keep an eye open, to vouch for you, etc etc. > Saying that your background is weird and therefore > should be a fit to be a trader is ridiculous. wow. I wish reading comprehension was on the CFA for guys like you. I didn’t SAY that my background is “weird” and therefore should be a fit. The point that flew totally over your head was that people have DIVERSE backgrounds so it doesn’t seem formulaic the way I-banking is. AND OBVIOUSLY I’ve talked to them I just said that, I just wanted a second opinion - and definitely no longer yours.
- Sweet law career path. I am sure that should help. Definitely stress the fact that you attended for a year. 2) Reading comprehension…is that an LSAT thing and since I didn’t take your class I am not aware? “What I do know is traders have WEIRD backgrounds”…you are right, you didn’t say your background is weird, I am. A History major who is a half-step from being a bigtime attorney and wanting to be a jr trader is a weird background…so I think you have that one covered. You know who else has diverse backgrounds? Almost everything. And do you know why traders can have diverse backgrounds? Cuz none of their other experiences matter. What matters is if you can trade successfully…so if you think an MBA is gonna teach you that I think you should go, then finish up law school, and onto Med School (dont forget to teach MCAT first), and then look at trading gigs. 3) You will be an amazing ticket runner somewhere in Indiana where they are using paper trade slips and have all the other kids talking about their buddy the ticket boy who used to be pre-law.
People like you are why the quality of posts go down. Typical, annoying, have-nothing-better-to-do forum reply. And you’ll be a statistic on a sidewalk if you talk to people like that in real life.
“statistic on a sidewalk”? Is that gangster or something? I’ll repeat my advice again as you either missed it or just have a thick skull (which won’t help you trade either, although it is WEIRD). -Education doesn’t replace experience -Network as much as possible -Be persistent on applying and interviewing to anything that gets you closer I know a guy who doesnt doesnt have his charter nor advanced degree, got a job in BO at a fund administrator for HFs, networked his way out to one of the HFs as a risk analyst, and now is on the path that he wants to become an analyst. He used all 3 of those pieces of advice, maybe you should too. Last piece of advice, and maybe you wanna write this down and put it on your computer monitor when you become that trader: dont be a b!tch, nobody wants to see you crying in the corner when you get caught on the wrong side of a trade. statistic on a sidewalk…ehhehehheheh
Thanks. You’re the most irritating person I’ve seen on this board. Your “advice” is useless, condescending and obvious - and definitely unwanted since you clearly don’t even understand the context. You’re definitely the one with the thick skull and I feel sorry for the investors of whatever portfolio you’re “managing” since you are on a forum writing long replies to posts you misread. Write this on your monitor “kill yourself.”
you obviously have never met daj… remember to fill my soda when you see the glass half-empty. -you cant “see” people on internet forums. -the thing more obvious than my advice is that people who ask a question such as “Is the Charter the key?!” have no idea where the lock or door is. -Your rebuttal for a thick skull is lame, no yours is, no you are, no, no you, yers, no… -stop sending me your resume
You completely ruined this simple inquiry you child. I’m very well aware of the context of the charter and have no illusions as it being a “key” to getting anything. If you had the ability to read between the lines (or even read English) you would understand that what I meant was whether or not progress towards the charter would help as a way to get a foot in the door to trading and or PM jobs. “>-you cant “see” people on internet forums.” - and I’M lame ??? Easily the most irritating individual here.
Oh and in case you are wondering : I’M NOT INTERESTED IN YOUR OPINION.
dude, you just need to let this go… I wasn’t going to bring this up…but you put a smiley face on the subject of your post!
OK back to the original post, but your guys’ little exchange was entertaining nonetheless… I too went down the path of the CFA hopeful, looking for something to bolster my chances to get a front-office job in finance. The person who turned me onto it was a guy who was an I-banker for GS. Anyway, my feeling (and if you research, you’ll see that other people agree), is that CFA does help slightly in getting your foot in the door. This means it helps you get in front of some faces who are doing what you want to do. It helps you get interviews. But, when you’re out there trying to make it happen, CFA will only take you so far (i.e. your foot in the door). You may very well have that door slammed in your face, get kicked out, etc. The path to these highly-coveted jobs is not easy, especially for people who don’t take the traditional i-banking route. So there. It helps, but not much. After passing L1, I got a few more interviews, but at the end of the day, no one really cared too much for it. It might just get you a slight nod or pat on the back, but that’s about it. And here’s a thread that talks about people trying to transition into FO from a different industry. Most people agree that it’s an extremely tough battle, but there are a couple of people who successfully make it, such as equity_analyst: http://www.analystforum.com/phorums/read.php?1,58964,page=1 Good luck.
tvPM Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > dude, you just need to let this go… > > I wasn’t going to bring this up…but you put a > smiley face on the subject of your post! No dude, you need to know what to do when people don’t want your opinion, which is stop posting. And yes I did post a smiley - I was happy before read your garbage.
You seem very argumentative… perhaps law was in fact your calling?
Topher - thanks for the info. That’s a little depressing but also what I thought Looks like a lot of info on that thread - check it out here in a few. Thanks again!
This thread makes me laugh - really, mocking people and name calling on a faceless internet forum is surely not that much fun tvPM?? Anyway, here’s my 2c. I wanted to move to finance around 4 years ago (not long after I left university). Beforehand, my only experience was daytrading my own account. I took the CFA level 1 to get a legup. I quickly realised that, even in the far better job market 4 years ago, it wasn’t going to happen with or without CFA. So, I took a stepping-stone job. I got a job working ops for the macro division of a hedge fund. The CFA helped me here at interview. Operations jobs were waay easier to come by, but they are very diverse in terms of responsibility, duties, exposure to the traders etc. I chose the job I did because exposure to the PMs and traders was large from day 1, and because macro is in many ways more complex and interesting operationally. Once I got to know them, then I would make a point of catching them when things were quiet and getting them to talk me through some of their trades. Working in ops, you get to see every trade that it does, so if you want to learn what they are doing, you can, whereas many just numbly do their job and book/reconcile etc. Anyway, for 18 months I worked my ass off, finished the CFA, created a bunch of systems/spreadsheets etc to make the traders life easier, and kind of became an assistant trader without an official promotion. The result was a job offer on that desk, but another at a different office within the same firm which was even better, which I took, and the result is that 4 years after my initial move I run a small book as well as trade for a larger portfolio. Was I lucky - yeah sure, but if you take the right position initially and work hard then you can make your own luck. But I truly believe that the only way to make it happen is to work your way up from within, theres simply too much competition with better resumes out there to land that job off the bat. Hope this helps.