FWIW nuppal, in ALL cases where I have taken a job that is clearly paying a wage below what I/the job is really worth, I have ended up with significant pay rises in the years that immediately follow (20% to 30% normally in the first year, business conditions permitting of course). Believe me, they know they are underpaying you, but once they see how awesome you are in the first 12 months (which will happen - believe me 97% of people out there are complete fckwits - it’s not hard to shine), you can expect a pay rise that will get you to where you would expect to be. For example, when I started my current job, the offered pay was a laughable excrement-inducing dung-heap of $40k p/a, which compared to my previous position of $65k (I’m talking AUD here). After 6 months it went to $55k, 6 months later to $65k and 12 months later to $110k. Like getting two 58% pay rises in a row. Anyway, my financial situation aside, the point is that unless this firm is out to screw you (which you can only assume they aren’t), they will recognise your value and pay you what you are worth further down the line. Don’t blow an opportunity for a few more $$ up-front. My 2c worth.
Thanks newsuper, that’s really encouraging to hear. I guess I am finally ‘paying my dues’ so to speak. Hard work, low pay with the promise (hopefully) of excellent opportunities down the road and/or comfortable pay raises in the future. I am not so worried about not making it right now, I just dont want to be caught in a situation where i need a few grand and I simply cannot put the cash together. All of your insights have been awesome and i really appreciate it. I think I need to focus on the fact that I got a job (and one that I absolutely wanted) that is enough of a satisfaction factor for me.
Nuppal, My cousin started off working as a temp at a local energy trading firm making 14$/hr and after a little more than a year was an associate at Goldman Sachs making 300k+ a year. Remember this is just a part of the journey…we all want lots of money and we want it now but sometimes we have to put things into perspective and take a long run approach. I’m sure you will kick a$$ down in South Beach and be making the big bucks in no time. Just remember, when picking up chicks in Miami…tell them you work in Finance and when they ask where, use the old Michael Scott “I’m a bank teller” If they run, it wasnt meant to be, if they stay, you are probably in for the best night of your life. Good luck!
I’m going to give you some advice that runs contrary to what several others have been saying. Yes, you’ve made a mistake in your situation, but fortunately it’s one that can be corrected. For example, telling your prospective employer what you’re currently making is NOT a mistake; salary can often be verified during a background check. Rather, it’s pretty clear that you do not know for sure what the typical range of salaries is for the position you’re interviewing for. How do you negotiate salary when you don’t know how much you deserve or how much you want? This is exactly why you’re having such a hard time negotiating. Your prospective employer presumably senses your inexperience and realizes they can “lowball” you. I put that word in quotations because I don’t know whether or not you deserve the salary they offer. But in any case, if you feel like you deserve better, why not ask for it? You’ll come across as a lot more of a credible candidate once you’ve researched the market and you have some conviction for what you SHOULD be earning. And you need to know what that number is today. Also, I see that some others on this forum have been lucky enough to get successive pay raises in employment years beyond their first, but I don’t think that’s something you can count on. Just remember the whole concept of net present value…a bird in the hand is greater than two in the bush. It is a big mistake to just accept whatever offer is made and expect fix it later once you have shown your work prowess. Instead of recognizing how valuable you are and increasing your salary, your employer will probably just congratulate themselves for getting a great deal on a new hire. Lastly, remember to have in your mind the number that you WANT to be making, and below which you will not accept. In negotiation, they refer to this as a walk-away price. It’s clear that you don’t know what this number is for you, at least at the moment. Ultimately, it helps to know the market, but you can come across as much more of a confident applicant when you know what you have a number in mind that you’re looking for. In my case, every situation where I had a successful salary negotiation was because I had a predetermined compensation figure in mind under which I would not accept the salary. I was so steadfast in my opinion that I actually told one prospective employer that “With all due respect, despite my level of enthusiasm for this job, I cannot accept this offer based on what you’re currently offering me.” It’s possible that the prospective employer won’t raise their offer, but if you aren’t getting what you want, why would you take the offer anyway? Just a couple things to think about. So, at the end of the day, you need to (1) thoroughly research the average compensation for the position you’ve been hired for, by speaking with people in the industry or reading sites like glassdoor.com; and (2) have more conviction in what you think you should be getting. Remember that the hiring process can be expensive for the employers too, so if they think you’re a good fit, it makes sense for them to come to an amicable agreement on salary. Good luck.
nuppal Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Then I ask her what level she was thinking about > she replied with a salary that quite frankly was > surprisingly low. So the $51,300 didn’t fly?
From what I’ve seen, a lot of people in PWM start in the 40k-45k range. Don’t expect anything close a bump like newsuper said. Just because your boss is managing a decent amount of $, hes done that all by himself so why would he give you more? Maybe you’ll get a 5k bump after one year, but certainly don’t expect 15k-20k bump unless you’ve brought in some good referrals.
newsuper’s story is like a black swan event in the current mkt, my friend joined this decent company 2 years back at 55K. Unfortunately market troughed for the past two years and he has had two raises, 3.5% and another close to 5…I don’t remember the actual number.
numi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Also, I see that some others on this forum have > been lucky enough to get successive pay raises in > employment years beyond their first, but I don’t > think that’s something you can count on. Just > remember the whole concept of net present > value…a bird in the hand is greater than two in > the bush. It is a big mistake to just accept > whatever offer is made and expect fix it later > once you have shown your work prowess. Instead of > recognizing how valuable you are and increasing > your salary, your employer will probably just > congratulate themselves for getting a great deal > on a new hire. I disagree with this reasoning. Once you demonstrate your value, if your current firm doesn’t pay you, someone else will. Right now young nuppi has no experience to negotiate on and is trying to secure a position in the toughest labor market in decades. Not exactly conditions in his favor. After a year or two, he can go back to the market armed with some valuable experience and at that point the firm will either pay up or lose him. CAVEAT: economy shows some life in the next couple years. other than that i agree with numi – know the market and your ‘walk’ price.
Well, I don’t really have a walk price. What they offered is enough for me to get by for 6 months. However, i’d rather be comfortable and not risk having nothing go wrong.
Even if you prove your worth it doesn’t mean they will pay you anymore. Only until you show that you can take business away from them or leave will they pay you over market settling price. Just as a FYI - PWM at the big ibanks start at 30s in Boston, heard some people can triple that within a few years if they are good. Also remember that 400-500 AUM are not your clients, they are the advisor’s clients, they are the one who pitched them, serviced them, etc. Your just some guy your boss has to sell to his clients to get them to trust you i.e. your a liability.
What about bonuses? I assume salary is only part of your overall comp plan? Along with that be sure to have a good handle on how likely you are to receive the bonus. Some are pie in the sky numbers, others are fairly dependable. You’ve got to be confident and ask for more money. Even if that’s not your primary goal at this stage in your life, don’t walk into the company being a pushover. Tell them you were expecting something about 20% higher and see what they come back with. If they pull the offer, which I can’t imagine, then they should F off anyway. Best case you get it. If not and they come back with the same number at least you tried. And, don’t forget there are other things to negotiate besides salary. Think benefits, moving costs, time off, etc.
I’m curious how much did they offer you? Is it ok to say?
BiPolarBoyBoston Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Just as a FYI - PWM at the big ibanks start at 30s > in Boston, heard some people can triple that > within a few years if they are good. One of my best friend’s dads was a private wealth manager for a large bank in NYC who was successful enough to spin out his own business. He invited me to lunch at his mansion in the burbs a few years back when I was looking for a near-entry level job, and he offered me an analyst position in his firm. Starting salary – $25,000/year. Moral of the story: whatever salary you “expect” to get based on what other AF posters tell you, you have to assign an AF Exaggeration Discount of 30-50%, always.
What SMIRK says is absolutely correct. People are more likely to tell you the best case scenario or exaggerate than to tell you “man I’m so underpaid, I make $25k”, even though it’s anonymous. Here’s some info on my deal. I was politics, philosophy and econ in undergrad and studied languages. Long story short, government did not work out for me. I’d been independent since I graduated HS, so I really didn’t want to have to go live with the folks. I took a temp job at a pretty well known bank/asset manager, got hired full time after 3 months making slightly more than McDs. I got promoted in my entry level ops position, learned about the buys side investing department, passed the first 2 CFA levels and took some classes at a prestigious local university to bone up on finance, got an analyst job making not a whole heck of a lot at first and just kept at it. 6 years later I’m doing what I want to do, have about 4 years of good buy side experience and am making good money, with the prospects for great money down the road. Yes, salary matters. But in a small market like Miami, with no experience, experience and more connections are much more valuable. Ask if they are going to cover CFA or any classes you want to take. Bottom line: if you’re a good investor you can make your own money.
Just got off the phone. I got a few k more and they said I will be at that salary until I get registered then its renegotiation time. I also didn’t push as hard as I was going to because after a heart to heart with Davisk she helped me realize that it’s more about the potential career opportunities right now. Not the cash.
jbaldyga Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > numi Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Also, I see that some others on this forum have > > been lucky enough to get successive pay raises > in > > employment years beyond their first, but I > don’t > > think that’s something you can count on. Just > > remember the whole concept of net present > > value…a bird in the hand is greater than two > in > > the bush. It is a big mistake to just accept > > whatever offer is made and expect fix it later > > once you have shown your work prowess. Instead > of > > recognizing how valuable you are and increasing > > your salary, your employer will probably just > > congratulate themselves for getting a great > deal > > on a new hire. > > I disagree with this reasoning. Once you > demonstrate your value, if your current firm > doesn’t pay you, someone else will. Right now > young nuppi has no experience to negotiate on and > is trying to secure a position in the toughest > labor market in decades. Not exactly conditions > in his favor. I don’t think you realize how hard it is to just get up and find another job, not to mention he’d be toiling away for crap pay to begin with. I’d hate to start a job with a pay package that I resented even before the day I set foot in the office. And there are plenty of contracts worth negotiating even if you don’t have directly relevant work experience. You just need to know your walkaway price. Ever since my first year out of graduation, I have not received an offer on the table that I *haven’t* tried to negotiate, and the negotiations were mostly successful. If they weren’t, at least I knew I tried to get the extra cash. My rationale is that someone like me deserves to be paid and if they don’t want to pay me what I’m asking for, at least I’d like to know why.
I’m curious if nupp’s salary bump in the last negotiation is in the 10% range over the last offer that I suggested might be there. Remember that you can negotiate on other stuff - will they pay for your CFA studies? Will they give you more vacation time, etc.
numi Wrote: > Ever since my first year out of graduation, I have > not received an offer on the table that I > *haven’t* tried to negotiate, and the negotiations > were mostly successful. numi that is quite an interesting approach. Since I graduated 14 years ago I have only ever attempted to negotiate once. All other times (and I’ve had about 6 serious jobs in my career) I’ve been comfortable with what they’ve offered straight off the bat. If a prospective employer offers you a good salary (relative to market levels) and it’s at your level of expectations, do you still try and negotiate something extra?
newsuper, if it’s a good salary and I understand that it’s in-line with the market *and* I have little chance of negotiating, I just take the offer as is. In the cases where I’ve tried to negotiate, it’s because I had doubts about the offer and I knew that if the offer didn’t change, I wouldn’t take it. I assume that my level of conviction in what I was willing to accept probably came through in my conversations with the employer, hence their willingness to adjust.
bchadwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I’m curious if nupp’s salary bump in the last > negotiation is in the 10% range over the last > offer that I suggested might be there. > > Remember that you can negotiate on other stuff - > will they pay for your CFA studies? Will they > give you more vacation time, etc. The bump came to 8% but I learned that my pay structure will be a little more complex than base + bonus.