Negotiating Salary

Most of you have followed my journeys in securing my new job. The last piece of the puzzle will be set tomorrow and that will be salary/bonus/benefits. I called my future boss today and we had a quick discussion about everything and she asked me how much I have been making with ATT. I replied $xx.xx/hour, she goes “wow, you’re working huh?” Then I ask her what level she was thinking about she replied with a salary that quite frankly was surprisingly low. Now I know that I am young and I should be only focused on salary and that I even said during the interview that I was more focused on experience and learning than monetary compensation right now. However, I think there is a minimum threshold and this salary is flirting with being below it. I know that Miami is notorious for paying low compared to cost of living. This salary I would say is below the industry average for the type of work I will be doing and I was wondering if anyone could give me a few pointers on how to bump is up a few K. Again, I am not looking to become mega rich at this job, I am more focused on learning/exp and building internal relationships. I do think that being able to accumulate a reasonable amount of capital should be a requirement too, that isn’t being met though. I don’t want to scare them away (especially now) I just want to bring it up to a level where I can comfortably afford rent and cover costs of living on my own. Thanks in advance.

First off congrats to your position. What will you be doing? how prestigious is the firm? are you coming on as a junior analyst or an analyst? How much do they have under AUM?

FWIW “I trust that my experience and education fit within the budgeted salary range for this position. (pause) What is the salary range allocated?” It may be an uncomfortable silence afterwords, but hold tight and let them reply when you put the ball in their court. Make it clear that salary is not a dealbreaker, but that you wish to maintain the standard of living you’ve grown accustom to bla bla bla.

@BCEagle10, Thank you. I will be building maintaing portfolios of HNW clients. As well as helping in VIP client briefings to explain their portfolio construction and allocations. This is a pretty abridged version, I am sure my duties will become clearer as I progress in the position. The firm is very very prestigious, (the former CEO was grilled in front of the “Whos to blame committee” he sat next to LB, from this description it should be obvious). The team (which consists of Me, the Boss and the secretary) has about 400-500 AUM. @Quant, thanks for the tip. I feel like I may have destructed a little bit of my leverage with the conversation I had today. I know for a fact my boss is pulling in about 1.5m/year so I think a few grand extra wont affect the bottom line.

Tip #1. Go back in time and don’t tell them what you currently make. Tip #2. Go back in time and don’t tell them that you’re in it for the experience more than the money. Tip #3. Since you’ve already told then what you currently make, don’t expect to be offered more than that, but definitely do a cost-of-living adjustment as part of your argument. Find out what the cost of living difference is between Miami and where you are now (Atlanta?). Then adjust your salary accordingly and ask for that. Don’t even mention anything about Miami salaries being notoriously low. That is not your problem.

S H I T @TIP2, I am in it more to get my foot in the door here and try to move around internally. My “salary” at ATT is so laughably low that I was making more interning with this company than I am at ATT.

There is often wiggle room for 10-20% above an initial offer, though in these times it will probably be closer to 10%. If it is enough to survive on, you should probably take it and look for the next opportunity after getting a little experience under your belt. If it is not enough to survive on, you should tell them that you are happy to be a value contributor, but you still have to make the rent.

Also Nup, don’t beat yourself too much on this. You’re young and you fell for one of the oldest tricks that HR uses to bash down salaries. The truth is that salary isn’t just about taking your last salary and bumping it up by a few percent to get you to move. They like to make it seem that way. They say. Ah, you were making pennies over at AT&T. Now you’ll be making nickels from us. What they do is compute your last salary, add 5% and say that’s what we have allocated for you. So the moment you say what your salary was, they know where to peg you. But at that moment, it’s hard to deny them that information. Just realize that HR professionals are often not all that bright, but they are VERY good at trying to get you comfortable enough to reveal critical information like that. They’re lack-of-brilliance actually helps them in that regard. You need to have some sense of what your position is worth, and be able to say "I was doing different stuff at AT&T and the salary for that stuff is not comparable to the salary for stuff that you want me to do at RipOffDaClient, LLC… That’s hard when you’re inexperienced. It’s also hard in this market, because historical salaries are likely too high. Try salary.com or some of the other salary sites to get a feel. It’s worth $50 or whatever they charge now to have that information with you when you are ready to talk salary. The good news is that if you’re underpaid, it shouldn’t be too hard to move when things get better. Any port in a storm these days.

if you don’t have any expertise to add to the position right away (i.e. you’ll have to go though a lot of training) then i think it’s best to use the first year to demonstrate some value and then negotiate for a good bump in the second year. Right now you have very little power in the negotiation. After you demonstrate that you are a valuable asset to the company, you’re in the driver’s seat to some extent (assuming this f*cking economy recovers in our lifetime). If they like you and find you valuable, they’ll pay up to keep you. may take a couple years though. in the meantime you’re getting valuable experience – so if they don’t pay you, someone else will a couple years in. remember it’s a marathon, not a sprint. holding out for short money upfront rarely pays off imo.

Hmm, not too suprised they made their offer on the low end of the spectrum; you did say you’re looking for the experience and would practically work for free. Rookie mistake ;). Reiterate the fact you’d be relocating and see if they’d be willing to up the offer a bit. I also like quantjock’s suggestion of mentioning the salary range. Btw how was the real estate vixen in Miami?!?!

Also remember that when things pick up, they will not want you to flee at the next best thing. Turnover is a huge cost, so I can’t imagine they’ll significantly underpay you according to market.

@Bachad, yeah, as soon as they asked the question I stalled for a second then kind of whispered it. Oops, lol. @JDBL, good point, I don’t have any experience and this is probably the safest thing for them to do right now. It makes sense now. @Davisk, I was thinking of saying something along the lines of relocating and going from there. Sara was great but she was trying to push me into a higher price range which I didn’t appreciate. I think we will find something good though, just takes time, everything takes longer than I thought but as long as it happens i’m happy. @QJMBA, very good point, she definitly alluded to after 1 year and me demonstrating that I had legitimate value added that I would be in-line for a healthly bump, I just have to pay my dues, which I must say I am happy to do. I’d rather do it now than do it when I have bigger things to worry about. In the end I am just happy to be working though, so you know, salary negotiations are just pure alpha…

Plus you’ll be in Miami! Having spent some time at that beach, I can only lust for a job down there. Spring break will be a summer weekend event!

What if you don’t tell them your true old salary? how can they ever find out?

I wouldn’t want to mis-lead them, have them call my manager and find out I overstated by 10 or 15 k. I can bet I would get canned real quick. Plus I have too much to lose here. I have been in a mating dance with this co for about 8 months now and I would be letting down some very important people that I couldn’t ever contact again, which would be a big blow to my contact list. I realised last night that I know more people in the company I am going to than the company I am at right now.

Just get your foot in the door. 400~500 mil AUM is respectable, but still small enough for you to negotiate for a better package once you’ve proven yourself. Is it really worth $10k~$20k in 1 year’s salary to give up an opportunity?

kevin0118 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Just get your foot in the door. 400~500 mil AUM > is respectable, but still small enough for you to > negotiate for a better package once you’ve proven > yourself. Is it really worth $10k~$20k in 1 > year’s salary to give up an opportunity? Exactly, and the team is 2 people.

A few comments and questions: 1. Congrats on getting the job. Going from ATT to PWM is a HUGE step. I’d love to hear how you managed this, and how you sold what you did at ATT to these folks! 2. Correct me if I’m wrong here but Blankfein sat at the end of the table so he only had one person sitting next to him. If I recall correctly the only person sitting next to him Dimon which would imply you are with Chase, but you said your company’s former CEO was the one grille, yet Dimon is still CEO at JPM. What am I missing? 3. When you say you know your boss pulls in 1.5mil I am assuming you mean revenue for the bank and not his comp. 4. Alluding to a significant bump isn’t equivalent to getting it. I would recommend, if they won’t move on the salary now but keep promising you this bump in a years time, getting it in writing in your contract where its spelled out what exactly the bump is and quantifiable goals you need to meet in order to get it. 5. Your old manager cannot legally disclose your pay to another potential employer? Can he? I would think this would be grounds for a pretty large lawsuit, no?

adavydov7 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > A few comments and questions: > > 1. Congrats on getting the job. Going from ATT to > PWM is a HUGE step. I’d love to hear how you > managed this, and how you sold what you did at ATT > to these folks! > I did it by net working, pure and simple. I stayed in contact with EVERYONE I met at at my internship and even flew up to HQ on my own dime to meet more people. > 2. Correct me if I’m wrong here but Blankfein sat > at the end of the table so he only had one person > sitting next to him. If I recall correctly the > only person sitting next to him Dimon which would > imply you are with Chase, but you said your > company’s former CEO was the one grille, yet Dimon > is still CEO at JPM. What am I missing? > Nope, I think I have the seating order wrong, you can extrapolate what firm I work for by other clues though. > 3. When you say you know your boss pulls in 1.5mil > I am assuming you mean revenue for the bank and > not his comp. > Yeah, production. > 4. Alluding to a significant bump isn’t equivalent > to getting it. I would recommend, if they won’t > move on the salary now but keep promising you this > bump in a years time, getting it in writing in > your contract where its spelled out what exactly > the bump is and quantifiable goals you need to > meet in order to get it. > I agree, I was going to suggest this during negotiations tomorrow. I am going to ask for a 10% increase now (not much) and then detailed goals and a quantifiable “bump” in the end. > 5. Your old manager cannot legally disclose your > pay to another potential employer? Can he? I would > think this would be grounds for a pretty large > lawsuit, no? Not sure, maybe. I think I shot myself in the foot, actually I am sure I did. FUUUUUUUUUU

LOL well in any case good luck tomorrow and great job on keeping your foot in that door until you got what you wanted (you have no idea how often I see our interns leave our company totally pissed and hostile after they don’t get an offer as a result of their internship)!