k-calculi, your suggestion sounded a bit like Marie Antoniette’s when she wondered why poor French people didn’t eat cake, if they didn’t have bread.
Yeah, you’re not middle class just because you “feel” middle class. Odds are if you are in the CFA program you are not a middle-class person no matter where you live. I don’t know too many “Middle-Class” americans that can afford the time and money for this program. I certainly don’t know too many Indians who can as well. Just sitting for the exam costs more than most Indians earn in a year. I think humanity has a general aphasia for recognizing poor people and this is quality is very abundant in India.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yeah, you’re not middle class just because you > “feel” middle class. Odds are if you are in the > CFA program you are not a middle-class person no > matter where you live. I don’t know too many > “Middle-Class” americans that can afford the time > and money for this program. I certainly don’t > know too many Indians who can as well. Just > sitting for the exam costs more than most Indians > earn in a year. > > I think humanity has a general aphasia for > recognizing poor people and this is quality is > very abundant in India. +1. Also, it is important to realize that it is easier to exhibit apathy towards poor when there are so many of them. Your mind gets used to seeing people in trouble. That is probably why you feel that that apathy towards poor is abundant in India. On the other hand, if there are fewer poor people, your concern for them increases. Human mind is so effing complex.
psriniva Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > k-calculi Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > >> Yes, less than 5% of us Indians (55 million to be > more precise) are very fortunate to get college > education, among the more than 1.1 billion. I am > one of those fortunate 55 million. (Just got > lucky brother, to be born in a middle class > family.) An overwhelming 40% of us i.e. 440 > million of us have to stop going to school after > 6th grade or so in order to support our families. > What ? There are 440million indian peope who dropped down school ? Do you have any good social system to take care of them there ? Because I can’t even imagine what it means for a country to have such a huge number of non educated people, knowing what are the risks, what they can do just to survive
No, India has a terrible social system. People survive in conditions that would be unthinkable to westerners. But it is fairly normal here and most don’t have any problem with it. It’s a good lesson because you realize that a human being just needs a bit of clean water and about 1000 calories of rice per day and a little bit of milk to get by.
India does have its share of problems in many areas. people have learnt to live with it. For example every monsoon areas get flooded because the drains weren’t cleaned and desilted. The roads are full of potholes despite tall promises by the administration. Things have improved in the last decade or so.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Yeah, you’re not middle class just because you > “feel” middle class. Odds are if you are in the > CFA program you are not a middle-class person no > matter where you live… Just > sitting for the exam costs more than most Indians > earn in a year. > That is why economists created the category “Upper” middle class, ChickenTikka, where you can categorize those people who belongs to neither rich nor MC. And strangely, I don’t much hear about"Lower" middle class. I guess from middle class, the only way down is to poor and then BPL.
Off topic, but, In india, do young NRIs stand a chance of getting jobs?
arunprasath Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > ChickenTikka Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Yeah, you’re not middle class just because you > > “feel” middle class. Odds are if you are in > the > > CFA program you are not a middle-class person > no > > matter where you live… Just > > sitting for the exam costs more than most > Indians > > earn in a year. > > > > That is why economists created the category > “Upper” middle class, ChickenTikka, where you can > categorize those people who belongs to neither > rich nor MC. > > And strangely, I don’t much hear about"Lower" > middle class. I guess from middle class, the only > way down is to poor and then BPL. Arun, Since when is the top 5 percent considered “The Middle” of anything? For Ganesh’s sake did you not learn the quanit section? We usually use the 5 percent to denote the freaking tail of the distribution. The average Indian makes about 2 dollars a day. If you make 2^6 dollars a day or more than you really can’t call yourself one of them.
I think this place has had a bit of an NRI bubble. Lots of NRI’s came over here but most had to accept plenty of serious pay cuts. I know guys that make 70 percent less. If you are now at all use to western amenities than I have a hard time justifying such a paycut because your lifestyle here will be quite expensive if you want to live like a westerner: i.e. do not live with your parents, do not live 10 people to a small apartment, have zero privacy, eat veg, do not drink, have zero sex life (outside of that which gets arranged for you).
Chicken Tikka where are you located? The middle class is earning more than before but the cost of living has gone up by much more. Living with parents is at times out of choice people do want to live with their parents and not leave them alone in their old age. The govt does not pay you an allowance for moving out like they have in some countries. We have seen what freeloaders have done in UK recently. for others affording a house even with increased salaries are out of reach in a city like Mumbai. living 10 to a room is not desirable but at times necessary cos people barely manage to arrange enough cash to fund their education i. e college , tuition fees etc. 10 to a room = zero privacy. being vegetarian, teetotaler are personal choices and difficult to follow in foreign land. Sex life… well we are the 2nd most populous country in the world 
I’m in Bombay. Don’t worry, I am not knocking the traditional Indian way of life; I actually have plenty of respect for it. However, I am making the point that living in India as a Westerner, and not a traditional Indian, is quite expensive. An NRI, who has grown accustom to a western lifestyle, will find it not possible to live on a local salary very gracefully. That question was asked, so I answered it. I am a real estate investor, so I verily understand just how expensive rent is here. I also understand that the West has problems of it’s own. I still do not want to live with my parents and I am certain they will prefer to be independent as long as they can. As for sex lives, India might be the 2nd most populous country, but more so for rather sad social reasons than awesome sex lives. I’d take sweden’s sex life any day.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Arun, > > Since when is the top 5 percent considered “The > Middle” of anything? For Ganesh’s sake did you > not learn the quanit section? We usually use the > 5 percent to denote the freaking tail of the > distribution. > > The average Indian makes about 2 dollars a day. > If you make 2^6 dollars a day or more than you > really can’t call yourself one of them. Chicken, Glad that you live in Mumbai so I dont need to explain hierarchy here. Income disparity so high that even though I earn a monthly salary which is way higher than an indian’s annual per capita, I can’t afford to buy a house between Nariman point (where I work) and Thane / Andheri / Vashi. That means gotta travel at least travel 40 KM each way. And in this these goddamn suburban trains that relatively crawls at snail pace. Rich here are filthy rich and they can easily live a king size life in Manhattan / Regent park. Forget quant and its stupid tail. Simply I can’t imagine myself in their bracket. And, by the way, I agree with you on another count. Although I know nothing about Sweden’s sex life I can readily confess that it must be better than Indian sex life. Lolzz.
Hi Chicken Tikka, I am getting back to the middle class question. I truly believe that I am in the top 5 percent of Indians, which translates to 60 million people. Since there are 60 million people like me, it is really hard to feel that I am rich, even though statistically speaking, I am rich. Feeling is more important than reality right?? I also agree with Arun, I will not be able to afford a home at least 20 kms from Nariman Point. So, there you go. Regarding Sex: When Morality of a society is based on your relationship with supernatural or based on something written by bunch of control freaks written and modified over thousand years or more, the end result will be that humanity suffers. So, what does the 18 year old dude do? His harmones are kicking and screaming. Religion tells you to control it. What does he do?? He abuses his nephew or his neighbor’s 8 year old son. A recent study conducted by AIIMS has concluded that over 35% of children in India are sexually abused by young adults in age range 18 to 25. My comment about nephew and neighbor are specifically mentioned in the study. The more rural the setting, the higher the abuse rate. Sad story. We Indians, especially RSS (religious arm of BJP political party) think that we are the most moral people in this world. Most of these abused children become people pleasers in their adult lives. Also, these abused children, when they grow up to 18, they continue the cycle. OK. I will stop my ranting. I hope RSS is reading this.
Considering the RSS is a small opposition in most Indian states and the BJP limited to being a regional party these days, I wonder why you’re blaming them? You never would blame the one party that has been ruling India for the past 40 years and kept it poor, but when any bad thing happens, it’s RSS! It says more about you than the RSS.
Hi Palantir, I am no supporter of Congress either. I am not trying to address the issue of poverty when I talk about RSS. When I am talking about poverty, I will definitely blame Congress more than RSS for sure. On the other hand, the issue I am trying to address here is the supposedly superior morality of us Indians. This is what RSS claims. Our morality is supposedly superior to that of Western countries. Does RSS even know about the issue of child sexual abuse by young adults in India. ? I sincerely hope that you will not take this personally and attack me personally. RSS goes out and protests against cabaret dancers in Mumbai instead of addressing the exploitation of these cabaret dancers by pimps and businessmen. RSS deprived all these dancers of their employment. Should they not be talking about the much bigger issue of child sexual abuse, which prevents many millions of children from growing up to have self respect rather than attaining people pleasing personalities?
That’s a tough one. For what I can see, in India there is a strong movement to prevent the dissemination of negative information. You will almost never see negative things shown in the press. Even the government, which deserves criticism, has ways of punishing the news media to the extent that journalists do not even begin to try to blow the lid on things. For every article about abused children, I can read about 10 gazillion articles about how India is “booming.” There is sick and depraved behavior in every country that I have been to. This is no different.
India’s middle class - whose annual household income is between Rs 3.4 lakh and Rs 17lakh. Currently, India has 31.5 million households (160 million individuals). A person who belongs to middle class would only think of vacation in sweden if he has enough savings.
My parents are millionaires and have taken 2 international vacations in the past 15 years. One was to visit me.
ChickenTikka Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > That’s a tough one. > > For what I can see, in India there is a strong > movement to prevent the dissemination of negative > information. You will almost never see negative > things shown in the press. Even the government, > which deserves criticism, has ways of punishing > the news media to the extent that journalists do > not even begin to try to blow the lid on things. > For every article about abused children, I can > read about 10 gazillion articles about how India > is “booming.” > > There is sick and depraved behavior in every > country that I have been to. This is no > different. Hi Chicken Tikka, I concur. So, when Govt. punishes the news media, news media will print only “India Booming” articles. The bigger question though is why is our society prone to such misuse? Any one who gets into a powerful situation in India becomes corrupt. (There are a few exceptions of course - very few courageous souls indeed). If I become powerful or rich in India tomorrow, I too am highly likely to follow in the footsteps of all these rich and powerful people. I don’t think I am any different. I have exploited all the opportunities that came my way just like any other CFA candidate who has had a relative advantage in our society. So, it is not these powerful people who are to be blamed. We should blame our society as a whole, of which we are a part. Our society places too much attention on morality based on Supernatural beings and texts written several centuries ago. So, what is lost in the process - HUMANITY!!! It is really a zero sum game - the more a society focuses on Supernatural, less the attention to humanity and nature around us. It is that simple. In fact study after study, have which conducted regression analyses (Quant level 2) between the corruption index of an economy along the Y-axis and Religion Index on the X-axis have concluded the following. There is a direct relation between the religion index and corruption index. More important the role of faith in a society, higher the corruption. I rest my case.