There are so many jobs that I wanted to apply for and have met all the other requiremenets ( work experience/education/skills) all EXCEPT for the one line in the middle of the skills section “Excellent modelling skills”. Through reading this forum I understand there are courses you can take ( wall street prep, deal maven etc) that can teach you excel, but are these courses enough for you to have “excellent modelling skills” or just enough to be “familiar” with modelling.
“excellent modelling skills” doesn’t mean too much by itself and it certainly doesn’t mean anything about Excel (since no matter what anyone says, Excel is a spreadsheet not a modelling platform). What’s the big deal about modelling anyway? Just start modelling. If you want to be an equity analyst, go find a bunch of equity data and start messing around with it. You probably have to be computer literate but if you aren’t you ought to be for just about any job.
agree with JoeyDVivre, best way to learn to model is just to see if you can get your hands on a working model for a company and use that as a template to learn how to model other companies Wall Street Prep and DealMaven are definitely useful in learning good mechanics of modeling too, but if you are perceptive and willing to go line by line using a good sell-side model, these can be just as useful and you don’t have to dole out several thousand dollars to take one of those courses And yes if you show up for a research interview and you do not know how to model, and they give you a modeling test, it will probably be a dealbreaker
just out of curiosity, how detailed is a “good sell-side model”? i’m in valuation and we build dcf and market models all the time, but i’m wondering how far they (sell side models) dig. for example, do they try to forecast sg&a in any greater detail than what could be found in the md&a and notes to financials? what about with sales? do they just pick a couple main drivers, like units and price per unit? do they focus on different lines of business and then just add it together? thanks.
training the street is $200
it really varies…sales line should definitely be built out if you’re a company with products…ideally you want to build it out and incorporate all the metrics that you think are meaningful in building up your revnue projections. in contrast a lot of time your opex is just calculated as a % of sales or growth rate. as far as what makes a good model, it really depends on the industry and company but use your best judgment
thanks. i guess it depends. that makes sense. i was wondering b/c i’d seen a bunch of reports on cce awhile back. at issue with all of them was the existence of price caps on the aluminum they used in the cans. they all talked about it, but most just showed cogs as a percent of sales. one firm though went into excrutiating detail trying to show how the price caps will affect cogs now and in the future, estimating cost of cans and how their cost of aluminum would impact their cost of cans. i couldn’t tell if they all did something like that, but chose not to show the detail, or if this one firm was the only one who went to that much detail. but again, i guess the answer depends. on your firm, your industry, etc. thanks again, though.
what if you don’t have the qualification: proficient with VBA? there is a job i’m looking at and the requirements i don’t have are the technical skills like VBA and data management and stuff like that. when i see something like that, do you think its good to still apply?
Which is better for padding your CV: Deal Maven or Wall Street Prep?
My roommate had some guys from training the street “teach” modeling during his orientation process at jpm IB. As Joey said a few posts above, it really isn’t anything too advanced. I took a look at some of the M&A models he was using and it was pretty basic, i.e. IF, various Lookup functions, basic macros, etc… Its not as though they were using Visual Basic. It’s the organization/formatting of data that appeared more important. If you were the type of kid you put puzzles together or played with Lego’s then it will come pretty naturally. Obviously I’m exaggerating a little but you get the point.
numi Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > agree with JoeyDVivre, best way to learn to model > is just to see if you can get your hands on a > working model for a company and use that as a > template to learn how to model other companies > > Wall Street Prep and DealMaven are definitely > useful in learning good mechanics of modeling too, > but if you are perceptive and willing to go line > by line using a good sell-side model, these can be > just as useful and you don’t have to dole out > several thousand dollars to take one of those > courses > > And yes if you show up for a research interview > and you do not know how to model, and they give > you a modeling test, it will probably be a > dealbreaker do you know where i can find a template? Im really aching to learn about this.
I work in compliance for a major asset manager in an offshore location. It is a pretty sweet deal but I want to eventually make the move to front office. I can understand what IH8FSA said though. Whenever I look at research analyst postings they always have “excellent modelling skills”. We use models all the time to run checks on trading and the derivatives holdings. I have even built a few. I am just wondering if that would count for much in an interview for an analyst spot though.
FrankArabia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > what if you don’t have the qualification: > proficient with VBA? there is a job i’m looking at > and the requirements i don’t have are the > technical skills like VBA and data management and > stuff like that. > > when i see something like that, do you think its > good to still apply? Your right Frank, that is the other killer of most jobs I want to apply to " VBA" and sometimes even SQL ??? With the modelling part, my resume states “FAMILIAR” with modelling, but I dont think the familiarity part will land me an interview.
Frank, I wouldn’t apply for a job that requires proficiency in VBA (if you have little or no proficiency). VBA (for someone who doesn’t know how to program) can really only be mastered via extensive use (even if only for a few weeks). It’s a language that requires immersion to become proficient. The guys who taught us VBA had only been doing it for a year, but it’s all they had been doing for a year. It’s JMO though.
kkent, well, i applied anyways. it was for Associate Quant Portfolio Manageer. i won’t get the job although i did fit the education requirements with the exception of those “technical” skills. they didn’t ask for anything else that I really didn’t have except for VBA which i found strange. what i really want is just an interview so i can talk to the guys down at the Asset Management department. get a feel of what they do or what not. i hope they call back though.
btw, what “computer” or “technical” skills are required to work in investment management. I would guess all of the microsoft products, but what about programming skills? if i hate programming and very “computer” related tasks, what are my options?
Frank - You should learn how to do simple programs. It’s good for you and we live in a computer age - you should know how to make them do things for you. Start with Visual Basic by taking a class at community college or something. Maybe you’ll meet some cool women.
FrankArabia Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > btw, what “computer” or “technical” skills are > required to work in investment management. I would > guess all of the microsoft products, but what > about programming skills? if i hate programming > and very “computer” related tasks, what are my > options? Frank, that is me in a nutshell. I want to get my foot in asset management, maybe even portfolio managers assistant, or junior trader, but these technical skills are killing me. I mean i am proficient in excel with simple functions (pivot, vlookup etc) but not modelling, and very little familiarity with Access. I think i might veer into private wealth management/investment counselling ( not investment advisor cfp stuff).
JDV, not a bad idea. But i have no passion for computers. I’m loving my learning in investments right now. but i think you make a good point, there are going to be things i hate that i have to do. my next read is giong to be modelling with Excel. i plan for this during Christmas after my FRM. the thing is, do they expect the people to come fully equipped with the knowledge, or is there training? from what I’m reading here, they provide you with the training for jobs like ibanking, but for junior analyst, they expect you to know all that stuff already right?
The only people who are allowed to not like or know how to use computers are the old grizzlys who have already proven themselves. All the lower level folks do is use computers. The ones who are the most proficient and detail oriented along with possesing the right mental equipment get moved up the rest get moved out. There is no alternative, there is no other options. Everything everywhere I have ever been has required everyone except managers to use a computer for 90% of their work. As the younger generations become managers they will expect their new hires to be as good as them or better. So learn that sh!t, or forget about a career in analysis anywhere in any business function and get a job selling or advising.