Philippines "goodbye America!"

YES! yes

The world has been moving away from America, and aligning with China, that’s nothing new. But finally someone just comes out and says it bluntly"goodbye America, we don’t need your interference, extortion, and disrespect". With Xie Jinping you get a fail deal, a real partnership, and treated respectfully…not the crude American “we don’t have friends, we have interests”.

South Korea needs to go next, they’ve wanted America out forever, but keep getting bullied into the “alliance”. Just pull the trigger.

what is Philippines?

Not so fast…

“It is in the best interest of my countrymen to maintain that relationship”

The Water Mexico

Translation: Oh Shit I just realized how much aid we are about to lose and China didn’t make a better offer.

Can’t have it both ways. You take money from us then you do what we tell you to do. PS- it may be in your best interest to shut your filthy pie hole before you conveniently end up like the people you are slaughtering.

That’s just PR to make Americans feel like they aren’t getting cut out of the loop (they are getting cut out of the loop).

It means what he said, he (like everyone else smart) is aligning with China. Of course he will not sever all trade with the USA.

By “aid”, you mean exploitation. And the American threats of violence will not work anymore, countries are moving forward and delinking, you can’t missile them into staying. You can’t even afford those missiles anymore. And when Asia (Korea) kicks you out, you won’t have a nearby launching pad for those missiles. laugh

There were other countries that said F.U., America: Cuba, Soviet Union, Argentina, Venezuela, North Korea, China before Deng Xiaopeng.

Let’s hope the Philippines enjoy better results.

Relations with Korea are just fine. And I don’t see them being best buds with China any time soon.

You seem to be very misinformed when it comes to US foreign relations or you’re living in a dream world, I’ll settle for somewhere in between. Do a quick Google search of US bases in the Pacific, we have an extraordinary military presence there. Our military has recently refocused its attention to the region. We are not going away any time soon.

Honestly, I don’t see what all the fuss is about. I personally hate all the interventionism. If we’re unwilling to do the smart thing and leave these places alone, I’m glad to see these countries do it for us. I don’t think China or Russia make the best bedfellows for those nations, or that it will end well, but I also think Americans have a very skewed perspective on a lot of international events that is generally extremely naive. We also have a terrible track record of making situations worse and antagonizing conflicts, sometimes because nations become more belligerent with our perceived support. The part that irritates me, is knowing that at the first sign of things deteriorating if the Philippines or any of these nations reverse course, we rush in like the bitch we are because we just *have* to get involved and couldn’t possibly miss out on another chance to put a base somewhere and possibly increase our influence. Obama did a reasonable job at avoiding this trap but we could do a lot better.

From your fantasy American media bubble. But that’s not what Koreans think, and that’s what matters.

They are sick of being charged for America keeping their military there, when Americans should be paying them! The US is always causing tension with North Korea in order to keep an imaginary threat going, in order to keep charging “protection money” and keep their base there (ever wonder why America doesn’t just end Kim Jong-un, that’s why). The two Koreas need to be protected from the USA, not themselves. They are also sick of being “the 51st state” and want their sovereignty back, the economic bullying is old.

Trying living in Asia instead of Googling.

And the UK. They have clearly aligned with president Xie. There were some very real middle fingers extended over the last couple years. Brexit itself might be a game to cut the EU out of those sweet UK-CN deals.

American bases in the Oceanic region will decline, they tend to be terribly unpopular in countries like the Phillipines and Japan where the GIs are implicated in uninvestigated rape on yearly basis not to mention Japan’s motions to re-build their military and boost manufacturing numbers. Duerte will play the line for a while till China makes it worth his money to openly switch which they will after taking baby steps.

I don’t know what the story is here, Asia will produce the next superpower, short term it looks like China is in pole position and countries in this region will gravitate towards them. Keeping in mind America’s economic problems at some point it will not be feasible to operate so many bases and as China and India build up presence in Asia/Pacific the cost-benefit ratio for power projection will not be worthwhile.

A simple solution would be to push global institutions for more inclusion that actually reflects todays world but the Americans treat them as an old boys clubs which is going to bite them in the ass sooner rather than later.

It’s not surprising that you assume I haven’t.

I hadn’t really followed this story carefully, so I was late to the game in realizing that they are talking about booting the US military presence as opposed to closing off economic ties. Presumably this means that there will be less US investment to support these bases, but maybe there will be Chinese bases there soon. Or at least a drug rehabilitation center.

The US was the imperial power in the Philippines for the first half of the 20th century, so there is definitely some nationalist value for sticking it to the old imperial power. However, the Chinese are not known for being any more altruistic than the US when it comes to their aid and trade agreements. For the Chinese, there is a major benefit to removing a large support hub for the US navy in that part of the world, so while the benefits for the Philippines is questionable, one can say “good job, China.” It would not be surprising if there were some big deal sweeteners, perhaps to Duarte himself, to make that happen.

Right, MonkeyDLuffy knows what’s up, as does Bswan.

The negative cash flows of the USG are massive (unsustainable), and the military portion is huge, and that’s AFTER making everyone else pay for those bases. But eventually the Asian countries wake up and realize America should be paying them for those bases, bigtime. And America can’t afford that. But China can. In the end, Asia feels Asia should be in charge of Asia, not the US…and so America is getting kicked out day by day.

The world moves on, I just like posting this stuff to watch the American denial. smiley

_ altruistic : showing a disinterested and selfless concern for the well-being of others_

Need I say more? laugh

From the American perspective perhaps the US and CN are equally non-altruistic, but their view is irrelevant. From the Asian perspective China is more honorable, respectful, less “hands all over” your stuff, and most importantly they are Asian. Xie has a great global approval rating. And yes, with China you get “deal sweetners”, with the US you get “shut up while we exploit you”.

It’s just a distraction by painting some outside entity as an enemy so people will stop thinking about domestic issues, practiced by such people and organizations as Donald Trump, North Korea, China, or Russia. I’ve seen with my own eyes political campaigns in Asia that were based on such idiotic premises as “elect candidate X to stop the Jewish conspiracy led by Americans to infiltrate our government”. If GW Bush exploited human weakness and paranoia through “fear, doubt and uncertainty”, then this is just the 10x multiple of that. Only a fool would see President Duterte’s fearmongering as anything more than meaningless posturing.

Edit: By the way, he basically retracted everything he said immediately. People in the US say Mr. Trump’s is the worst candidacy in history. Philippines has already elected their version of Trump.

PA says “From the Asian perspective, the Chinese are more honorable,” as if Filipinos were culturally closer to the Chinese or Japanese [and therefore impressed by Chinese honor because it matches their value system] than they are to Latin Americans, Yankees, Pacific Islanders, or even Pakistanis.

The Philippines are an ASEAN country, so geographically proximate to Asia, but culturally, they are closer to Latin Americans than they are to Chinese.

This. America needs to grasp that this is China’s near abroad where they have significant strategic interests and they are going to pursue them relentlessly. Is there a compelling reason for the US to be there?

Exactly, there is no reason for them to be there. No reasons that benefit Asia, only reasons that benefit them.

The wife (Korean) and I were talking about it more at dinner. When South Korea exits (they tried and failed before) the whole thing goes like dominoes. Previously KR told the US to get out of their country, but the US responded with massive economic threats (tariffs) and KR backed down within days. Now they are demoralized and view themselves as a puppet state lacking sovereignty. It’s bad, the areas of land in Korea occupied by the US military are legally owned by the United States!!! What, Koreans would need to invade their own country, defeat the US military, reclaim their own land?? What a mess. In reality their best move is to align with China, to get help pushing the Americans out. However Korea has perception-based issues with the Chinese which cause them to view an alliance negatively.

With the Philippines though, they have nothing to lose. Their country already sucks and the people are suffering. It’s easy for them to go first and say “get lost USA”. And it’s like the Trump rape victims, the more who step forward, the easier it gets. But KR will be the last to exit I think, the US will do everything to hold that.

I think this is academic. The cultures in Asia are all quite different, however they are all Asia, and they want Asia running Asia because only Asia understands Asia…not some clueless white guys who have never left Utah.

Yeah. The Chinese would prefer to be dominated by the Japanese than they would by some white guys who’ve never left Utah (or Picadilly). That “hey, cool, they dominate us, but at least they’re Asians” worked out really great in the 1930s.

And the Filipinos sure loved their taste of that in the 1940s, That’s why they were so bummed when those round eyes retook Bataan. Dreams of Asian harmony shattered for generations. There was wailing in the streets.