Do you see a probable cause for shooting the guy? seems under control in the video …
Video of shooting and witness interview:
http://nypost.com/2016/07/06/video-shows-fatal-altercation-between-police-man-selling-cds/
Apparently the cop doing the cuffing (not the closest one) can be heard saying “he has a gun, gun”. Official findings aren’t out, but from what I’m understanding, he did not have a gun. The guy who shot (nearest cop) seems to have drawn his gun at this and interpereted this as “shoot him right now before I (his partner) get shot”. In the moment, I believe you’re supposed to act on your partner’s observations, but he may have misinterperetted or just gone into panicked tunnel vision. It was pretty bad either way. I feel like you would want visual confirmation of a clear threat, but what do I know, these things do happen fast.
What I still don’t get, is why people insist on putting up a fight with cops. It’s probably because he was selling illegal dvds and bystanders called it in that they were being threatened by this guy who said he had a gun . But when cops finally arrived and confronted him, if he just cooperated from the start, it would be a very different situation now
And yes the guy was indeed armed.
Yes there is a probable cause? But isn’t the whole idea behind allowing officers to use deadly force is to prevent significant threat of death or harm to the officers and/or people in the vicinity? Seems odd that they decided to shoot him after pinning him down while each officer is holding one of his arms …
Maybe continuing to resist the arrest even with a gun pointed at him could justify the shooting? but i truly believe the officers could’ve cuffed him if they wanted to, it just doesn’t seem like they handled the situation properly.
I used to be very anti cop in these situations, but have since softened my stance a bit. In some situations, I think the cops have really screwed up and I do think there are institutionalized issues with police in some areas, in others like this one, you have to try to put yourself in their shoes in a fast moving situation. There’s a body cam out there somewhere on the internet of a cop doing a routine check at a house and getting shot to death in the chest in about a half second. Another one (I think in Ohio) a guy pulled a knife on a cop at about 3 ft distance during a traffic stop, fortunately the cop was not injured and he showed remarkable restraint in not immediately shooting the guy, but instead getting reinforcement and backing away on foot until others could detain him peicefully (the guy with the knife was clearly a bit out of his mind). For every one of these there’s probably 100 we don’t hear about that are handled well. Anyhow, the man who was shot’s right arm was not being held tightly at the time he was taken down and even if it was, it is not the nearest cop’s (the one with the gun who was reacting to his partner’s commands) job to second guess things in a potentially fast moving situation.
The point I’m making isn’t that I think they couldn’t have done better to handle hte situation, or even that they did the right thing, but that in a case like this where a gun is involved in a struggle it probably falls more under “accident” than “purposeful oppression” or somehting of the kind.
Edit: after watching it again, it still feels like the cops screwed up big time. Witnesses say the gun was in the guy’s pocket. That being said, there’s no way in hell I’d be physically struggling with cops knowing I had a gun on me and how that could go down.
He was simply exercising his second amendment rights. The second amendment doesn’t apply to black men?
Take a look at this >> https://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2016/jul/04/uae-citizen-detained-by-police-after-911-caller-said-he-claimed-allegiance-to-isis-video
Even though the guy was innocent, i believe the situation was handled properly, approaching with the right tone, emptying his pockets and every action was right on point (maybe breaking his phone was a bit harsh).
I believe with the first situation, they already tackled him and it got physical, I think even breaking both hands or shooting his legs would’ve been better than 4 shots in his chest in cold blood.
Totally agree …
Edit: And I don’t think they were racists, but definitely incompetent.
That raises a good point with a couple follow up questions… 1) did he have a concealed carry permit? 2) was he armed in the act of a crime? If the answer is no to 1 or yes to the second, then no, he was not exercising his second amendment rights as defined by the laws
My biggest problem with police is the types they tend to recruit. The guys who cant handle fast situations. I had 2 friends both apply for the same job to go to the academy, one just graduated from my hacksaw university with a degree in criminal justice the other got an associates in something from a community college after spending 4 years in the marines including 2 tours in Iraq/Afghanistan (on a recon team that was involved in some hairy situations) They guy that got the gig? The one who went to my school and had no formal training of any sort before. Its crazy to me that would be the choice, the US tax payer has already paid to provide insane amounts of training to this one guy, certainly above that of any PD in the country, and they take some kid with a degree over it? Makes no sense.
Can’t really fault the police officer for shoot first ask questions later in this case. The guy was armed and was told not to move his hands, how hard is it to just do that? Why do some people have some sort of ego that makes them not comply with the police when their life is at stake, ESPECIALLY if you are a minority.
I agree, my solution to the police issue has always been to recommend a major cut in headcount with budgets held the same. Get better trained, better qualifieid candidates and smarter policing.
Im with you on that. Id imagine its easier to train someone with the tactical skills to do the soft stuff than train a random person to do both at an average level, its not like cops are expert legal minds they bend/break rules constantly.
Perhaps this is being overlooked because this is too spot on. The first thing I noticed when I watched the video was, “why is that guy resisting and thrashing around?”
Had he just stood there and done exactly what was asked, he probably would be in jail for carrying an (very probably) unlicensed firearm. Instead he’s dead.
It’s a major problem in the black community. Don’t trust cops. Don’t talk to cops. Be as difficult as you can when confronted by them.
Well, mistakes (if that’s what this was) happen when you have that attitude.
I know of a very similar situation, but instead of the military the guy I know was a cop in the Bronx and was looking to relocate to something less dangerous. So he interviewed at a suburban PD, and they straight up told him that their concern in hiring him was how he would handle their comparatively less dangerous situations when he was accustomed to the rough stereets. For instance, a big deal in Suburbia might be handling a DUI, whereas in the Bronx he would just take the guy’s keys and throw them in the car after locking the doors so the guy could no longer drive, and then move on (no arrest) to the more violent acts routinely taking place. So they basically told him he was overqualified, but it’s probably not unreasonable, just wasn’t a good fit.
More maiming and murdering of citizens. Some little 120lb teen, just wants his rights, at once the massive police coward pig goes crazy, tazers the heck out of the kid, drops his limp body face first, handcuffs lifeless body. How many times have we seen this? It should be mandatory death penalty for any police harming citizens in any way, period.
Yet another irrational and heedless statement from troll Alphie…
#YouNeverQuit
Oh, it’s quite rational, current state is irrational.
Irrational: not logical or reasonable.
American police sneak up behind some guy, murder him, then handcuff his lifeless corpse…
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/crime/article103973781.html