Sounds like you are all menstruating currently… If your resume is boring enough that you need to liven it up by putting “passed on first attempt” then go ahead. Market yourself as best as you can. However, I’d look for something cooler about myself to say.
I want to include passing on he first attempt on my resume, but, I think saying it outright is lame. Including the dates seems like the classy thing to do, but I didn’t take the exams back to back. I had a prior commitment that stopped me from taking the test, I didnt register. Anyhow, I plan to drop it in my cover letter or interview. I’m not old, but I’m old enough that I think bragging too much about my CFA progress suggests that I am insecure about my education or work experience. In all reality, different strokes for different folks. Some people will hate you for having it, some will be impressed.
As I wrote in the other forum - I encourage you to do this. In fact, if your resume hits my desk, I’m going to purposely call you into my office for an interview (maybe even make sure you pay your own way to get here) and then make sure to rip you a new one before walking out.
CPierce Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As I wrote in the other forum - I encourage you to > do this. In fact, if your resume hits my desk, > I’m going to purposely call you into my office for > an interview (maybe even make sure you pay your > own way to get here) and then make sure to rip you > a new one before walking out. Hahaha - I’m glad you put this here. I didn’t see the other one.
hazyskunk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I do it, in fact the response from people that > have interviewed me has been very positive and > impressed. An interview is the last place you want > to be humble. I am the best and this is why. +1 if you’re early in you’re career. if you’re in level III territory you’re likely competitnig with guys who were laid off from prior street jobs and or ivy undergrads and or mba’s. mba’s always boast which school they went to so why wouldnt you boast if you passed 1 and 2 on the first try. Thats like saying class rank at grad school doesnt matter, when clearly it does bc the #1 guy will work harder for you than the #245th guy
As mentioned, claiming superior ability due to having passed all three on the first try is an ethics violation. Of course, putting “passed on first attempt” on your resume is not explicitly making that claim, but implicitly, you may be interpreted to be in a grey area. I was at a career management event put on by our local CFA Society a couple of months ago and this exact question came up. A gentleman who is a charter holder and lawyer said, in his opinion, he would view it as a transgression. OK, so HE likely would not be hiring you… Also, the hiring manager who is looking at you might have had to repeat an exam and he/she might find it a little tiresome. Especially since unique circumstances are a huge factor… Do you really think it is comparable when, let’s say, you consider a 80-100 hour per week person with children etc. takes four attempts to get all three compared to a single person with a 40 hour per week, lower-stress job who goes three-for-three? So, it is a crapshoot. All depends on where the particular hiring manager is coming from… YMMV Not saying three-for-three in not a noteworthy accomplishment, but I would like to know a lot more before I put a great amount of stock into it.
sitting around being paranoid about how you are potentially perceived by a hiring manager who may have potentially had extentuating circumstances for failing at various times is a bit silly i am fairly sure that the ethics violation occurs when one implies superior ability AT INVESTMENT MANAGEMENT via CFA status / progress bottom line is to pass all three exams on the first attempt DOES say valid things about you that an employer should want to know. is says you are hardcore. says you worked hard. says you were able to set a big task for yourself, and via own personal discipline and determination, you accomplished your goal. why on earth WOULDNT you mention it?! i mean i kinda see it being a bit tasteless if you have 10+ years in the field. you presumably should have other worthier accomplishments to tout in the limited space that is your resume. but anything short of that? especially in a tactful way, go for it. its a big deal. you are a winner. what was the point if NOT to get jobs with it?!
What I would like to know is how many of you who are against putting “passed on first attempt” have actually passed the exams on the first attempt?
Neo4 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > What I would like to know is how many of you who > are against putting “passed on first attempt” have > actually passed the exams on the first attempt? +1
I say leave it off. I don’t think listing ‘first attempt’ will get you any interviews you wouldn’t otherwise have gotten and it will almost certainly come up in the interview. If it’s important to the interviewer they’ll find out and you get to look humble as a bonus. If it isn’t important to the interviewer, you can spare yourself looking like a jerk. And I went 3 for 3.
I passed the FRM and series 7 on the first attempt, for example, when others in the firm much higher up than me did not, but how stupid would that be to put on my resume? It would make me look either a) insecure about my REAL accomplishments in the world, b) as though I didn’t have much else going for me, or c) maybe that I was a huge douche and just didn’t get what was important. There is always the chance of pissing off the interviewer. People are looking for reasons to screen you OUT, not IN. To me there is no upside to it. Some people are easily threatened. It doesn’t mean anything, just like the guy who interviewed me that got an 800 on the analytical section of the GRE exam claiming he was a great quant. Are you kidding me? That bar is so low and it means nothing at all, other than he probably worked hard to get that score that I could walk in with no preparation and get a 770. Should I put on my resume “770 on GRE with no studying? Pick me over guy who took Kaplan prep courses and wasted 3 months of studying to get an extra 30 points.” In my old firm, regarding the series 7 for example, anyone who got much over the minimum passing score was looked down on, because it was felt that they wasted too much work time on something THAT DIDN’T MATTER. The firm just wanted us to pass, and the goal was to do it as efficiently as possible. Regarding the CFA, for most of us, what’s important is getting the charter. It’s just deluding yourself to think that most people will view it otherwise. But honestly, it’s up to you. Do it, and risk looking like a douche, or be humble about your accomplishments and wait for the interviewer to bring it up! And seriously, you WILL look like a douche, for example, we got a resume once from some guy (for a trading position) which boldly proclaimed across the top that he was a member of Mensa - maybe he was - and also had a certificate in Microsoft Access! People on the trading desk laughed like crazy over this guy’s resume as you can well imagine. To me, this is equivalent to putting “passed all three levels of the CFA on the first time” on your resume.
Have to agree w/ doubledip. The CFA can not be the highlight of your life, or you likely will not be getting the job. This applies to the actual interview as well. Let them bring the topic to you. If you have to weave it in yourself, do it only once and keep it short. Many people will walk down your resume, so the topic will likely come up. This may be hard for some people, but I assure you a long speech will not help the scenario. Either they understand the difficulty of this test before hand or they don’t. You will not be swaying their opinion one way or the other. Too much talk will make you sound dependent or possibly weak in either case.
Luckily I took all 3 levels of CFA exams and FRM back to back, so I’ll just put the dates on.
Another thing to keep in mind is the person who views your resume that may have taken the exams before but doesn’t remember the standard verbatim. While it’s only a violation to imply passing on the first attempt leads to superior returns, they may have committed to memory that stating you passed on the first attempt is a violation in and of itself.
zoya Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > sitting around being paranoid about how you are > potentially perceived by a hiring manager who may > have potentially had extentuating circumstances > for failing at various times is a bit silly No, rather not considering the way your statements may be percieved is what is foolish IMO. Resumes get you the first interview, why wouldn’t you think twice about putting something that this thread shows quite clearly is controversial? Roll the dice my friend if you think it is worth it. Full disclosure: I have not gone three for three, but I had not felt any urge to brag about going two for two in the first two levels either.
How could this topic possibly reach this length?
It’s lame. i would not put it. Some of the old timers (hiring managers) with a charter don’t know how difficult it has become. They remember back to when they took it and say “so what you passed all on first try’s, we all did…big deal.” I had a great analyst come in my office after passing L2 and he was like, “So what’s the pass rate now? I know it has become harder, so is it like 60%?” Use it as a talking point in the interview: how its helped your day-to-day work and sacrifice and commitment. but I wouldnt have CFA involvement take up more than 2 lines (MAX) at the bottom of the resume: Line 1 - Level 3 candiate (June 2011 exam) Line 2 - Affiliate Membership in whatever chapter you are with Seems sufficient.
If i saw 3 for 3 on a resume i would infer that person is pompous and wouldn’t make me anymore inclined to want to meet that person than any other applicant. 3 for 3 doesn’t mean you are smarter or will be a better employee. Are you just a good test taker, got lucky with the questions asked, book smart? Finishing while not going 3 for 3 shows persistence and dedication to achieving a goal. That says more about a person imho. thats just my $.02
Bankin’ Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I say leave it off. I don’t think listing ‘first > attempt’ will get you any interviews you wouldn’t > otherwise have gotten and it will almost certainly > come up in the interview. If it’s important to > the interviewer they’ll find out and you get to > look humble as a bonus. If it isn’t important to > the interviewer, you can spare yourself looking > like a jerk. > > And I went 3 for 3. Agreed…I had a interviewer explicitly ask me how many attempts it took me for L1 and L2 (one shot each) and needless to say he was impressed…more with my modesty than anything else…did not got the job though cuz the person he hired had way more experience but he called me again to discuss my interest in another position.
amjf088 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > As mentioned, claiming superior ability due to > having passed all three on the first try is an > ethics violation. Of course, putting “passed on > first attempt” on your resume is not explicitly > making that claim, but implicitly, you may be > interpreted to be in a grey area. > > I was at a career management event put on by our > local CFA Society a couple of months ago and this > exact question came up. A gentleman who is a > charter holder and lawyer said, in his opinion, he > would view it as a transgression. OK, so HE likely > would not be hiring you… This is actually an explicit example in the ethics handbook. You are explicitly allowed to say you passed all three levels on the first attempt, as long as it is true and as long as you don’t say that this indicates you are better than other charterholders.