My title isn’t quite accurate, but it will work for now. I’m starting an MBA program in the Fall and have almost pulled out of the program twice now. Before students start the program, the university requires the students to do coursework prior to Orientation, as well as some personality tests etc. My personality came back as having an engineering type of personality and being somewhat data and number oriented. I agree. In fact, my school doesn’t have a financial engineering program, so I’ve tried to overload in as many math courses as possible. When reading job listings and required skills, I notice that a lot of funds and institutions hire Math, Physics, Engineering or Computer Science based people. I’ve also read articles from hedge fund managers that explain they prefer to recruit from science based degrees because they don’t have to reprogram the person and get stuff like the efficient market hypothesis out of their minds. The science based people work in a different logical manner. In my undergrad Finance courses, I have to admit some of the theory taught is kind of ridiculous and not relevant to real world in my opinion. I’ve argued this with some of my professors. In some ways, it’s caused me to look down on a business degree. I also have some industry experience with my last job being in Sales. I’ve got to be honest, I wasn’t impressed working with Sales people. I actually liked working with my customers, but I couldn’t work with them in an objective way. I was limited to my company’s methodologies which were somewhat biased and didn’t always fit every customer’s needs. The company also put us on quotas for certain products, which I didn’t worry about because I always met them somehow without feeling “pushed” to sell stuff at the end of the month to meet a quota. At the end, the company wanted us to start selling managed accounts and when I asked for data on the accounts performance I got a lot of pushback so I wouldn’t sell it without being able to assess the performance for myself. I was one of the top sales people and met all my goals except for managed accounts. Finally, my boss sent me down to sit with that area so I could compare numbers and I didn’t like what I saw and questioned why we were pushing those. I swear it was like talking to preprogrammed robots. My manager didn’t even understand the product himself but was talking it up. He didn’t even look at the comparison data for the managed account versus some of our other products. So after a couple of weeks, I put in my notice. Quite frankly, I don’t understand why Sales people have such a hard time with knowledge and dealing with data in an objective manner. Maybe my sample size is small, but so far my observations seem to be pretty consistent. Anyway, I’ve seen some really good advice and feedback given on this board. I truly love Finance, but don’t want to work in a Sales position. I like researching and working with data a lot. I also plan to add some programming skills to my resume. Because I won’t be reentering the workforce with a Math or Physics PhD or something of that nature, is there a way to move over to a more mathematical based position with an MBA background? What kind of roles would work for me? Thanks in advance and sorry for the long post?
This reminds me of an ethics item set where you have to skip to the end and read the questions before reading the passage to save time.
lol
atlas_shrugged Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > My title isn’t quite accurate, but it will work > for now. I’m starting an MBA program in the Fall > and have almost pulled out of the program twice > now. > > Before students start the program, the university > requires the students to do coursework prior to > Orientation, as well as some personality tests > etc. My personality came back as having an > engineering type of personality and being somewhat > data and number oriented. I agree. In fact, my > school doesn’t have a financial engineering > program, so I’ve tried to overload in as many math > courses as possible. > > When reading job listings and required skills, I > notice that a lot of funds and institutions hire > Math, Physics, Engineering or Computer Science > based people. I’ve also read articles from hedge > fund managers that explain they prefer to recruit > from science based degrees because they don’t have > to reprogram the person and get stuff like the > efficient market hypothesis out of their minds. > The science based people work in a different > logical manner. > > In my undergrad Finance courses, I have to admit > some of the theory taught is kind of ridiculous > and not relevant to real world in my opinion. I’ve > argued this with some of my professors. In some > ways, it’s caused me to look down on a business > degree. > > I also have some industry experience with my last > job being in Sales. I’ve got to be honest, I > wasn’t impressed working with Sales people. I > actually liked working with my customers, but I > couldn’t work with them in an objective way. I was > limited to my company’s methodologies which were > somewhat biased and didn’t always fit every > customer’s needs. The company also put us on > quotas for certain products, which I didn’t worry > about because I always met them somehow without > feeling “pushed” to sell stuff at the end of the > month to meet a quota. At the end, the company > wanted us to start selling managed accounts and > when I asked for data on the accounts performance > I got a lot of pushback so I wouldn’t sell it > without being able to assess the performance for > myself. I was one of the top sales people and met > all my goals except for managed accounts. Finally, > my boss sent me down to sit with that area so I > could compare numbers and I didn’t like what I saw > and questioned why we were pushing those. I swear > it was like talking to preprogrammed robots. My > manager didn’t even understand the product himself > but was talking it up. He didn’t even look at the > comparison data for the managed account versus > some of our other products. So after a couple of > weeks, I put in my notice. Quite frankly, I don’t > understand why Sales people have such a hard time > with knowledge and dealing with data in an > objective manner. Maybe my sample size is small, > but so far my observations seem to be pretty > consistent. > > Anyway, I’ve seen some really good advice and > feedback given on this board. I truly love > Finance, but don’t want to work in a Sales > position. I like researching and working with > data a lot. I also plan to add some programming > skills to my resume. Because I won’t be > reentering the workforce with a Math or Physics > PhD or something of that nature, is there a way to > move over to a more mathematical based position > with an MBA background? What kind of roles would > work for me? Thanks in advance and sorry for the > long post? Doubt it. Try to go into the PhD in Finance after the MBA.
atlas_shrugged, I would respectfully disagree with DanLieb…a PhD in finance is more geared for academia, would take way too much time to be practical, and would probably deal with things on such a theoretical level that would not be relevant to what you want to do. If you are interested in a more math-based position, you might consider something like an Masters in Financial Engineering or Masters in Computational Finance. You might try the search function…there have been some discussion about the value/role of the finance PhD relative to the other masters degrees. Also, farley013 usually likes 1. one-liners trying to be witty 2. long paragraphs that are based on flawed logic and pure stupidity …so I’d ignore what he has to say because he’s a complete idiot…or be entertained by him. You might want to do a search on my name and his name, and you will get great entertainment about how much I’ve destroyed his stupid arguments (especially one on the LIII forum where he makes some stupid comments about race and education). I’ve certainly been entertained by his stupidity through it all. Good luck!
bostonkev Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > atlas_shrugged, > > I would respectfully disagree with DanLieb…a PhD > in finance is more geared for academia, would take > way too much time to be practical, and would > probably deal with things on such a theoretical > level that would not be relevant to what you want > to do. Can’t agree with you. For example, Mark Carhart who manages Goldman Sachs Global Alpha Fund did his PhD in Finance on persistence in mutual funds performance. Very practical type of research.
maratikus…I could definitely be wrong…but given 1000 finance PhDs and 1000 MFEs, which would go the route that what atlas_shrugged more?
bostonkev Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You might want to do a search on my name and his > name, and you will get great entertainment about > how much I’ve destroyed his stupid arguments > (especially one on the LIII forum where he makes > some stupid comments about race and education). > I’ve certainly been entertained by his stupidity > through it all. I don’t see how farley013’s comments on education were any further off-base than yours
Farley’s response made me laugh. I’m just making sure the readers keep their ethics skills sharp. 
I’m all about efficiency so whatever reading method works best for him is fine by me. Thanks for all the feedback received so far!
This thread is heating up…
That is mostly referring to a post yesterday on L3 about blacks, hispanics, and education. (do a search on it) Also, I think that you like him because he defends you and made you feel better about yourself, especially after you got sensitive/angry/defensive when I brought up the LII exam (it was a low blow on my part I admit)… I don’t think you are a bad guy or mean-spirited like farley013…judging by your posts…so I don’t want to fight with you (and don’t want to spend a lot of time on it).
Gouman Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > This thread is heating up… Gouman you instigator! As much as I’d like to provide you quality entertainment… I don’t want to be too much of a distraction on AF. (I apologize to everyone for my behavior in the past.)
Girls Girls… its ok there is more vagasil and its strawberry scented.
LOL…anyways, arguing and winning an argument on the internet is like winning the gold medal in special olympics…you lose even when you win, and winning is a dubious thing. Unfortunately, I’ve been competing in every event lately so I am signing off for a while.
No one accused you of winning anything. You’re like the Spike Lee of AF trying to annoy the real players on the court but no one’s really paying attention to you.
bostonkev, I would say my response was designed to highlight the relative insignificance of the CFA exam to my personal career goals, but I guess you can consider it “defensive” as it was contrary to your argument. Looking at it in a different context, I’m sure you could say that Albert Pujols isn’t a particularly competent baseball player since he wasn’t even drafted among the top 400 prospects in his year, or how Gilbert Arenas is a basketball flop since nobody thought he was good enough to give him much playing time as an Arizona frosh. But the point is, all of that is irrelevant now. I’m about as committed to CFA exams as I am to underwater basket-weaving and any other activity that isn’t important to me, and from where I sit professionally today, I obviously don’t mind all that stuff being a thing of the past. Anyway, I don’t understand your motivations sometimes (other than seeking attention) and I don’t think you’re entirely mean-spirited either, as it is pretty funny to watch you and farley013 hash it out. I’ll just leave you guys to do whatever it is that you’re doing.
K, I can’t resist (1 more, lol)… farley013, I won against you because you didn’t/couldn’t counter me in that thread on L3 about blacks/hispanics and education…you say you always have to put fools in their place…but you just shut the fuck down and didn’t counter me after I showed how stupid your comments were. farley013 = PWNED!!!
After I realized you’re a misguided junior analyst wannabe who’s not even within 3 income tax brackets of me I put you on ignore. Similar to what I would do if one of the junior analysts in my firm was dumb enough to challenge a managing director.
I think it just depends on your end goals. If you want to do fundamental research for a hedge fund or mutual fund, get an MBA. If you want to do data mining or algos for a quant fund, get an MFE. If you want to do research, teach, and possibly some consulting on the side, get a PhD.
K (1 more, bahaha)… You put me on ignore and “counterattack” with something that doesn’t involve the arguments, bringing in an irrelevant point… For your viewing pleasure, I append farley013 thought processes, and my counter. farley013 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don’t mean to start a race war or stereotype > people (unless it’s Chinese people and then JDV > might back me up), but here in NYC at least I’ve > noticed that a large number of proctors seem to be > blacks and hispanics from local community colleges > (I’ve heard a few people ask them where they’re > from) and a large number of test takers seem to be > affluent Asian, Indian, and Jewish people from > Wall Street firms. A little bit of racial jealousy > on the part of the proctors that their people > aren’t as successful as “our” people perhaps? to which I write… farley013 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > but here in NYC at least I’ve > noticed that a large number of proctors seem to be > blacks and hispanics 1. No @#$%&, that’s cause there are more blacks and hispanics in NYC in general. What if you took it in some place in Russia, Australia, or Toronto? If you didn’t assume a correct world view and then take all evidence to support it, you would probably not think this way. > from local community colleges > (I’ve heard a few people ask them where they’re > from) 2. I love it, implicitly disparaging them for going to community colleges…with the ultimate power of a very small sample size and anecdotal evidence to back it up. I guess that’s all that matters to you since the world revolves around you and you are simply seeking evidence to support your already-formed ideas. 3. Many of those community college people probably didn’t have the money to pay the tens of thousands of dollars out-of-pocket or feared taking out the large loans. Furthermore, a sense of loving education might not have been instilled into them until later on in life, by far, way past the time it took to prepare for your elite schools (despite how that takes hard work and dedication). I’m not a liberal… > and a large number of test takers seem to be > affluent Asian, Indian, and Jewish people from > Wall Street firms. 4. How do you know they are affluent? I can go out and buy a $5,000 suit for a day and I would look affluent. Once again, if you didn’t assume a correct world view and then take all evidence to support it, you would probably not think this way. > A little bit of racial jealousy > on the part of the proctors that their people > aren’t as successful as “our” people perhaps? 5. That comment is based on the increase in the number of PCP posts here on AnalystForum…a pretty trivial sample size compared to the population of all test takers world wide. 6. I’m in one of “our” people groups you mention - implicitly the “better” ones, but your comment is framed in a provocative way (just like the tone of most of your posts) with only trivial evidence and anecdotal evidence. If I were a black or hispanic and I read stupidity like what you write, backed up my ridiculous logic…I’d feel oppressed too. Again, I’m not a liberal. 7. Your goal isn’t to discuss, it’s to put fools in their place. If you and this type of thinking can get you a spot as a high-salary fund-of-funds manager, I am not too worried about my job prospects after I graduate from school. 8. Also another thing to add to this “race war”… he doesn’t even consider blacks and hispanics outside of his freakin’ little world. There are many hispanics outside of NYC, NY, and America. There are many blacks outside of NYC, NY, and America, North America, and the western hemisphere. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- I guess I couldn’t/wouldn’t debate the points either if I were farley013. Gouman…enough entertainment for you? 