There are a couple of things about WS that are hard to comprehend. If you guys can shed some light… 1) Quants have been and are in growing demand, yet they are considered 2nd class citizens and are generally not amongst the highly respected/paid? 2) Although a charter such as CFA or a MBA in Finance provides the macro view required to excel at the higher levels of organization, it is considered old school as compared to Financial Engineering?
It just depends on how quantitative the business model is. Just like how programmers are kings at Google, quants are kings on quant desks and at quant funds. Search the board, too… there have been more than a few discussions/flame wars on this.
I always secretly dreamed of being a quant. Being a super smart quant always seemed great to me. Too bad im a moron.
Sorry, I think I missed the evidence you are presenting that quants are second-class citizens. Or is this just an assertion?
vpatel9 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 1) Quants have been and are in growing demand, > yet they are considered 2nd class citizens and are > generally not amongst the highly respected/paid? > Why don’t you tell us about your story in order to get some meaningful feedback? I know a few “quants” that are extremely respected and compensated accordingly.
I hear Jim Simons does ok.
another terrible thread
Well, if we’re talking about Quants in the finance industry, they are revered…probably too much. Also, supply of quants far outweighs the demand.
volante99, that is interesting you mention that quants suplpy outweighs demand, that was my impression when I saw the jobs that princeton MF grads (very similar to MFE program…no matter how much they try to deny it). Most of them seem not to be doing options/derivatives pricing or trading, which is what I would expect a quant to do… http://www.princeton.edu/bcf/graduate/placement/ JPMorgan Chase: 12 graduates Asset management in New York Emerging markets trading in New York Equity derivatives trading in New York Fixed income trading in London Fixed income research in New York (3) Mortgage-backed securities in New York Proprietary trading in New York (3) Structured credit products in New York Goldman Sachs: 10 graduates Equity research in Hong Kong Derivatives trading in London (2) Options trading in Chicago Private client strategy in New York (2) Proprietary trading in New York Principal strategies in London Quantitative strategies in New York (2) Barclays and Lehman Brothers: 9 graduates Fixed income research and analytics in New York (4) Emerging markets trading in New York Asset backed securities in New York (2) Commodities trading in New York Ph.D. Programs: 6 graduates Princeton University London Business School Northwestern University Oxford University Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania (2) Government of Singapore: 9 graduates Monetary Authority Development Bank Ministry of Finance (3) International Enterprise Credit Suisse: 3 graduates Asset backed securities in New York QSI program in New York Citadel Investments: 4 graduates Portfolio Management and quantitative analysis in Chicago Fixed income in New York Citigroup: 2 graduates Currency trading in New York Fixed income analysis in New York Merrill Lynch: 3 graduates Capital markets in New York Credit derivative sales in New York Interest rates derivatives trading in New York Morgan Stanley: 6 graduates Emerging markets trading and equity derivatives structuring in New York IDEAS Group - Quantitative strategies in New York Fixed Income trading in New York Fixed income trading in Hong Kong Oak Hill Platinum Partners: 2 graduates Hedge fund trading in Greenwich (2) Princeton University Investment Co. (PRINCO): 2 graduates Asset management in Princeton (2) One graduate each: APAX Partners: Private equity in New York Bank of Italy: Bank supervision in Milan Barclays Capital: Fixed income research in New York BlackRock: Portfolio Analytics Group CIT Corporation: Corporate finance in New York Constellation Energy: Power trading in Baltimore Dean and Co.: Financial consulting analyst in Washington Derivatech: Derivatives pricing software in New York Deutsche Bank: Global capital markets in New York Empirical Research Partners: Quantitative equity modelling in New York Gleacher & Associates: Mergers and acquisitions in New York Hagin Investment Management: Quantitative asset management in New York LarrainVial, financial services in Santiago, Chile McKinsey and Co. Business consulting in Paris Mitsui Bank: Commodities trading in New York Moody’s Investors Service: Financial research in New York New York Federal Reserve: Banking supervision in New York NRG Energy: natural gas trading in Princeton Putnam Investments: Quantitative asset management in Boston Reserve Bank of Australia: Credit research and forecasting in Sydney Sanford Bernstein: Quantitative asset management strategy in New York SembCorp Industries: Finance in a manufacturing company in Singapore Shanghai Stock Exchange, Senior Research Fellow Sidley & Austin: Derivatives law in New York Silvercrest Asset Management Group: Asset Management in New York City Susquehanna International Group: Senior Trader Two Sigma Investments: Quantitative technology and finance in New York World Bank: International Finance Corporation
Since when were quants promoted to 2nd class?
CFAMaven Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > volante99, that is interesting you mention that > quants suplpy outweighs demand, that was my > impression when I saw the jobs that princeton MF > grads (very similar to MFE program…no matter how > much they try to deny it). Most of them seem not > to be doing options/derivatives pricing or > trading, which is what I would expect a quant to > do… Yeah, pretty impressive list. But the fact of the matter is, there are one million and one kids out there with PhDs and MFEs all going after an extremely limited and small career field. Sure, quants’ high compensation is partially due to their specialized skill set, but it also reflects the high profit potential of the work. Banks don’t make money on investment banking anymore, it’s all quick buck trading, mostly within the derivatives markets (pre 2008 that is). After the smoke of this economic mess clears, it will be interesting to see what the future will look like for quants.
Yes, but what percentage of the ~40,000-50,000 newly minted PhDs go into finance each year? 10-15% maybe, so 4,000-7,500. That’s not a whole lot.
40 - 50k PhDS each year!?!
nuppal Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 40 - 50k PhDS each year!?! Similar to MBA programs, 99 % of PhD programs are garbage. But the wheels must turn and money must be spent and useless research must be done.
40k-50k is probably all phds in all disciplines. The ones that might be relevant to quant work might be much smaller and include: math, engineering, physics, and also fields like (computational) biology.
sublimity Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 40k-50k is probably all phds in all disciplines. > The ones that might be relevant to quant work > might be much smaller and include: math, > engineering, physics, and also fields like > (computational) biology. True. My mom is considering getting a PhD for no apparent reason (she doesnt work). She wants to get it in French Lit.
^ I know, since she has already told me.
hahaha
sublimity Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 40k-50k is probably all phds in all disciplines. > The ones that might be relevant to quant work > might be much smaller and include: math, > engineering, physics, and also fields like > (computational) biology. Agreed, though I would be tempted to argue that a lot of topics, even some soft sciences, can be statistical/experimental/quantitative at the PhD level, though not so much French Lit.
justin88 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > sublimity Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > statistical/experimental/quantitative at the PhD > level, though not so much French Lit. Yeah, my mom HATES math. She taught French Lit at GA Tech and Emory and now that she does next to nothing all day (except shop and teach spinning classes) she wants to do the PhD.