real life investments

hello everyone… so let me ask a simple question.

how do u make your own investments(/portfolio) while having read material L1?!?

i m really wondering…this stuff is so powerfull i want to apply it real time…

so start off with returns and diversification… when in books u see returns and their correlation… what returns do you take? do u download closing prices and for each day u take the holding period (ie return) …then a second stock and u have your covariance with that stock?!?

CAPM is not used real time due to unrealistic assumptions as i see! (although some ppl use it as a reference)

let s just exclude the top-down approach for simplicity in order to select the stocks…

be patient young grasshopper, the material you’re looking into is CFA level 4…

You start with valuation. Learn valuation concepts. That’s more of Level 2, but it is in L1 too I think.

lol… i m impatient!! till markets are up again…i have time to learn more :wink:

I’m just putting all of my wealth into the Permanent Portfolio (www.crawlingroad.com) until I learn enough about investing to do something more lucrative.

Start easy, ETF’s. Still gotta do your homework to pick the right companies, with the right holdings, read the documentation etc, but that’s a good way to get started until you’re comfortable with valuations. (just my personal approach)

ETF s track indexes right?? how is this goin to benefit me? apart from the diversification which is a big plus? do you think that someone alone at home can do a good valuation and diversification??

diversification though has to include 10+ stock picks right? better to diversify only with stocks or include fixed income etc? (in L2 i think it s more investment strategy oriented right?which is really valuable!) …and how can i personally quantify my own risk tolerance??do u have any guidance?am i going to be overconfident (biased) since it is self-assessement?

Probably best to try carving out stuff in a core-satellite structure. This is where you have a core asset allocation that is diversified among ETFs, plus a small amount (say 10%) that you then use to make stock picking decisions. Of course, depending on how much you have to invest, 10% may be a very small amount.

In stock picking, there are generally two approaches, which are not quite as distinct as people make them sound… there is a value approach, which prioritizes buying stuff at low valuations, and there is a growth approach, which prioritizes identifying companies with high growth potential. They are actually not that dissimilar, because valuation is still important in the growth approach, it’s just that one is spending much more effort trying to predict and value the growth component of a stock price rather than the value of existing operations. It is hard to avoid overpaying for growth, but essential.

As for your other questions:

Diversification can be achieved with ETFs through as little as 4 or 5 (or arguably even 2), because they diversify across asset classes. We say that diversification is about the correlation of returns, but really it is about the “synchronization” of returns. You want assets that don’t go up and down at the same time, and this is easier with asset classes. It is true that for assets in the same asset class, you generally need about 15 or 20 to protect yourself against ideosyncratic risks, but if your assets are truly unsynchronized, then a portfolio of four uncorrelated ETFs can be more diversified than a portfolio of 20 tech stocks.

However, when you are stock picking, you are basically making bets on the return vs. the level of ideosyncratic risk, so if you feel confident enough in your analysis, you arguably don’t need a super-diversified portfolio. This is what the Buffeteers mean when they say that as long as you’re buying at a big enough discount, you don’t have to worry so much about diversification. I don’t fully believe this, but that’s because I’m never fully sure that if I’ve bought at a big discount, it can’t still go substantially lower, so I do like to diversify more.

For risk tolerance, ultimately there is nothing more to do than to ask you how would you feel if your portfolio lost 10%, 20% 40% 80%, etc in one year… There’s no secret formula in the CFA curriculum that tells you how to convert your feelings to a volatility or VaR number. So here’s my my suggestion: Ask yourself: at what point would you panic, or conclude that you had no idea what you were doing and just give up (as opposed to refining your idea, which would be something different)? Then set your target volatility to something like 1/4 of that. This is based on the idea that people tend to overestimate their risk tolerance, and that normally distributed returns would have annual returns larger than the volatility figure in about 1 out of 3 years, so you need to shrink that number even further.

nice points… they got me on track to do my research on these aspects.

one more question… you see people being contrarian etc … how much of this theory does apply to real life? I mean do most people go as “a herd” following analysts estimates or is there a big majority contrarian to what is going on?

is that applicable only to stock specific attitude…or an investor is ‘defined’ in general as etc contrarian?

who have lost in the past ?

I’m a contrarian. First think about what you want to invest in. Are you doing passive oriented asset allocation? Then maybe you can use ETFs. Although I still havent figured out how people can generate good returns doing that. Are you selecting specific stocks? If so, post some ideas in the “Investments” subforum.

You make exceptional money at moments when you’ve been contrarian and correct, but the problem is that the crowd is often right, and then you lose money by being contrarian. So you have to have a contrarian *rationale*, rather than just a contrarian *attitude*.

The attitude can come in handy for identifying contrarian opportunities though. You just have to be sure that there is a real rationale for your contrarianism that goes beyond “it’s not what everyone else is thinking.”

Ha, I never gave contrarian any serious thought until I kept losing money by “going with the flow”. Still no master at it though, hence the ETF’s. Small gains are better than no gains!

Anyone that actively manages their own investments actually track their active risk adjusted return? Information ratio? Factor-Model Benchmark? Anything?

Just curious, it seems individual investors report track their returns about as well as gamblers track their winnings.

The CFAI text even refers to the empirical evidence against persistent positive active returns, or the non-persistance in returns. For example, Most of the top decile of mutual funds managers for one decade do not appear in the top decile the following decade.

I enjoy picking stocks, but my retirement money is in index funds. Everyone should try to make it out to a DFA conference sometime even if they are a tried and true active manager. It is quite a treat to hear Fama and French speak.

90% of my portfolio is indexed, split between S&P and the EAFE with some emerging market exposure via EEM. Whenever someone finds out I took the CFA, the first question I get is a stock recommendation as if I possessed some superpower. When I tell them what I invest in I always get a “Oh…”.

I got that too. I have many friends who want me to tell them how to get 20% with no risk, and that’s just because I work in finance - they don’t even know what CFA means.

It’s actually kind of disappointing that we can learn so much between CFA exams, work, degrees and what not, and yet all that usually just reinforces the view that consistently beating the market is pretty hard.

80% of my portfolio is indexed with ETFs. Domestic equities in different sectors, international equities, commodities, fixed income, and real estate have made up the majority of my portfolio at varying rates over time. I also use options to hedge/provide leverage.