Very few people take the quran literally, just like very few people take the bible literally. What does the bible say about gay people, for instance? These texts are reflective of societies that existed over 1000 years ago. For the most part, people have moved on. I grew up in a Muslim majority country and it was more secular than the US. As for the democracy argument - don’t we also need to protect the rights of minorities? For instance, if I say something that offends most people but is otherwise harmless, does that mean that I should not have the right to say it?
CFABLACKBELT Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I would bet my entire > savings the economist and others would come back > and say my actions are insensitive and that my > store should be shut down. they’re probably decry this too: http://www.mediaite.com/tv/greg-gutfield-to-open-a-gay-bar-next-to-ground-zero-mosque-to-cater-to-islamic-gay-men/
How far away is far enough? They’re already 2 blocks away. Is 5 blocks enough? Just out of downtown? They probably can’t afford anything in Tribeca. Given the level of discourse in the this country, people would probably be outraged to learn Goldman has an office less than 6 blocks from Ground Zero.
ohai Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Very few people take the quran literally, just > like very few people take the bible literally. > What does the bible say about gay people, for > instance? These texts are reflective of societies > that existed over 1000 years ago. For the most > part, people have moved on. I grew up in a Muslim > majority country and it was more secular than the > US. > > As for the democracy argument - don’t we also need > to protect the rights of minorities? For instance, > if I say something that offends most people but is > otherwise harmless, does that mean that I should > not have the right to say it? your bible represents your religion. it is the basis of all belief. if not taken literally, it loses its credibility. the bible states that homosexuality is wrong. homosexual sex is purely for pleasure with no other purpose. the bible states that sex is for man and wife with the intention of conception. any sex outside of this is wrong. because a man and a man cannot get married, its fornication. this is the real “sin”, not homosexuality. i bet most truly religious christians and catholics will speak out against homosexuality, this is coming from a guy who spent a decade in a christian school. letting them build a mosque is not protecting their rights. when it comes to sensitive issues, higher powers should make the call for the good of the populace. that is why there is zoning, but zoning doesn’t capture all. protecting their rights is letting them be sheeple to a religion that restricts freedom. i can’t build a ‘house of satan and sin’ wherever i like, so they should have restrictions as well. an exaggeration but i do believe satanism promotes respect more than islam.
Below are some biblical verses(?) taken from Nancy Mallette without her permission from http://goo.gl/IpyI I wonder what would be like if we started following the bible literally? You know, like ALL muslims do with the koran? Supporting the Mosque in NYC and letting it be built helps show HOW the west is actually different from what Al-Qaeda’s narrative tries to portray it is, and will stop more terrorists than an extra 1 trillion USD on the war on terror would. But hey, you choose. ------------------ 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? 3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of Menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense. 4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself, or should I ask the police to do it? 6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination, Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of abomination? 7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle-room here? 8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? 9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I’m confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.
NakedPuts Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How far away is far enough? didn’t Katz’ deli go out of business? there might be an open location.
^^ please post something from the new testament which is what the western world is built on… we’re not jewish thanks… in the way that we use the old testament as the past word of god, so do the muslims.
“the koran preaches inequality” You could say the same thing about the Bible. People use it - rightly or wrongly - as a reason to discriminate against gays and women for a start. People can interpret documents as old and nebulous as the Koran and Bible in many ways to suit their own ends. The old testament is full of archaic nonsense that contravenes many of the accepted cultural norms of the 21st century ‘west’. Saying that you cannot accept Islam as a ‘serious religion’ is an extremly agressive statement. It is a fundamentalist opinion that does nothing to help promote peace and understanding between different cultures.
Carson Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > “the koran preaches inequality” > > You could say the same thing about the Bible. > People use it - rightly or wrongly - as a reason > to discriminate against gays and women for a > start. People can interpret documents as old and > nebulous as the Koran and Bible in many ways to > suit their own ends. The old testament is full of > archaic nonsense that contravenes many of the > accepted cultural norms of the 21st century > ‘west’. > > Saying that you cannot accept Islam as a ‘serious > religion’ is an extremly agressive statement. It > is a fundamentalist opinion that does nothing to > help promote peace and understanding between > different cultures. like i said, muslims consider the words in the old testament to be the word of god in the same way that christians do. muslims also beleive that the new testament is the word of god but that jesus was just a prophet and not the messiah. sorry by muslims, i mean so it is said in the koran. jews’ bible = old testament (plenty of bad stuff, but outdated) christian’s bible = new testament (nothing bad to write home about) islam’s bible = koran (has 60 pages about the inequalities that should be forced upon women specifically)
I don’t wholly disagree with you but I think you need to temper your opinions in a more diplomatic way. For someone born into the muslim religion, the comments you have made will clearly be offensive. There are pluses and minuses to all religions (including atheism if you want to categorise it as such) and I think placing one above the other in stark black-and-white terms as you have done is divisive and will only lead to further hostility and bloodshed. If there is ever to be peace in the Middle East, we need to soften opinions on both sides so that people of all traditions can respect each other and learn to live together. If Manhattan is not liberal enough to permit this kind of mutual tolerance, then what hope is there for the West Bank?
Carson Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don’t wholly disagree with you but I think you > need to temper your opinions in a more diplomatic > way. > > For someone born into the muslim religion, the > comments you have made will clearly be offensive. > There are pluses and minuses to all religions > (including atheism if you want to categorise it as > such) and I think placing one above the other in > stark black-and-white terms as you have done is > divisive and will only lead to further hostility > and bloodshed. > > If there is ever to be peace in the Middle East, > we need to soften opinions on both sides so that > people of all traditions can respect each other > and learn to live together. If Manhattan is not > liberal enough to permit this kind of mutual > tolerance, then what hope is there for the West > Bank? okay. instead of questioning the religion’s validity, from this point forward, i will just state that most of the foundation of islam is founded on inequality, which is fact as per their bible and not opinion. it is my subjective, yet non-unique conclusion that islam cannot co-exist with all other religions based on equality and fairness (christianity, buddhism, hinduism to name the larger ones) just to be clear, i reject all organized religion, so i take offense to anyone who believe i’ll will burn in eternal hellfire should i not be a drone ant to their religion.
MattLikesAnalysis Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > CFABLACKBELT Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Sorry but I don’t buy this article. The > economist > > is well known for being an apologist to Islam. > > > > > First, let me state that I do not disagree with > > the right to put a mosque there. I will defend > to > > the death for their right to do so. However, > it > > is extremely insensitive and in poor taste to > put > > it there. Are there no other places in NYC > that > > are sufficient? I find this extremely > offensive > > and I can’t understand why the economist and > > others think my feelings should just be brushed > > aside. How would Muslims feel if I opened up a > > store dedicated to showing pictures of their > > profit right next door? I would bet my entire > > savings the economist and others would come > back > > and say my actions are insensitive and that my > > store should be shut down. > > do you mean profit or prophet? either way, i think > they would be offended… Haha yes. Prophet I mean.
The 9/11 terrorist had as much to do with Islam as the Westboro Baptist Church has to do with Christianity. The 9/11 terrorist were extremist. They were crazy. There are an equal proportion of insane people in every religion. Insanity is a human condition, not a religious condition. Once people figure this out, we will all realize that just beacuse some crazy person says they are doing something in the name of a religion doesn’t mean that everyone that practices that religion shares their beliefs.
High comedy! MattLikesAnalysis Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > your bible represents your religion. it is the > basis of all belief. if not taken literally, it > loses its credibility. AntonioY Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- Below are some biblical verses… MattLikesAnalysis Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- ^^ please post something from the new testament which is what the western world is built on… we’re not jewish thanks…
I think this whole episode is just another great example of how republicans like newt are happy to trample all over the constitution when they disagree with the resulting policy impact.
Per capita and on average, do you think American troops kill more people in war in the name of freedom (or whatever cause the politicians claim as the reasons for our many wars) annually than Muslims kill prople in the name of Islam? Keep in mind there are about 300 million Americans and somewhere in the range of 1.5 billion Muslims.
mar350 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > they’re probably decry this too: > > http://www.mediaite.com/tv/greg-gutfield-to-open-a > -gay-bar-next-to-ground-zero-mosque-to-cater-to-is > lamic-gay-men/ Wow. I applaud this man. My only concern is if he should fear for his life if he actually sets up the bar. If the Muslim’s who setup the Mosque have no need to fear for safety, it’s only fair that the gay bar owner should have no fear either. That’s the only way to get equality.
naturallight Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I think this whole episode is just another great > example of how republicans like newt are happy to > trample all over the constitution when they > disagree with the resulting policy impact. anyone who defends islam obviously knows nothing about it. to be clear natural light if i wasn’t clear enough before, muslims and christians treat the old testament in the exact same way. it is a story book sent by god, that is it. here’s the dilemma. our political idiology and our society is now based on the prospect of a and a bettering of the state of equality. we promote freedom and have established freedom as our #1 goal and a right that we will defend at all costs. the question is, do we allow individuals to shape their lives around a religion whose foundation is built on inequality and destruction of freedom? the west’s acceptance of islam is the west’s forfeit of an equal and free society. this has nothing to do with terrorism. it has everything to do with the incompatability of freedom and islam. to allow a mosque within the mere vicinity of a tribute to freedom, or to include a tribute to freedom in or near a mosque is a spit in the face of america. if you’re a real muslim, you believe in the koran, and you believe in inequality. if you’re a moderate muslim, you’re not a muslim, and you’re going to hell according to your bible. if you’re a real catholic, you believe homosexuality is wrong. if you’re a moderate catholic, you’re going to hell according to your church (but not the bible). the reality is that all organized religion is disallows us from acheiving equality and freedom, its just that christianity tends to hide it better. nonetheless, ignorant acceptance of anything and everything is NOT the american way. i find it interesting that the new reverse “-ism” is now for islam yet the religion promotes non-tolerance and inequity. all reverse -isms of the past have been in the name of equality. i think we have it backwards this time around.
MattLikesAnalysis Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > iteracom Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > The problem isn’t that people believe all > Islamic > > believers are terrorists. > > > > The problem is perception. If your loved one > was > > killed by men who are murdering people solely > > because of an image. And now that same image is > > being erected high and in public right near > their > > act of terrorism, at the very least, it’s a > very > > uncomfortable feeling. > > > the koran preaches inequality. it is incompatible > with our political idealization of equality. this > is why we cannot accept islam as a serious > religion. it is built on physical, spiritual and > mental slavery. this isn’t coming from an ignorant > north american. this is coming from a man who has > studied all of the prominant religions and their > books, who has lived with two muslims, and has had > numerous debates with them to which one agrees and > one disagrees. btw, the one who disagreed was the > same one who woke me up at 6am cursing george > bush’s and america’s name when sadam was captured > in a rat hole. true story. if anyone disagree’s > i’d suggest you read the section of the koran > titled “women” and it will make you sick to your > stomach. > > as for the location of the mosque, its a stupid > economic decision. the cost of security, insurance > and repairs will make it one of the largest cash > drains in the city. the fact that there is so much > public distaste for it should dictate its > location. this is democracy right? islam does not > preach freedom, so any tribute to freedom or > american victims is worthless. I am sure that you understood nothing from the section “Women”, you didn’t understand from this section the Islam praises women & try to secure her rights. For the second section I admit that the Americans were victims of Islamic terrorists. But please till me should we stop building churches in Arab countries like Egypt just because people we killed in Japan, Vietnam, and other countries by an army with a majority of Christians.
MattLikesAnalysis Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Carson Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > “the koran preaches inequality” > > > > You could say the same thing about the Bible. > > People use it - rightly or wrongly - as a > reason > > to discriminate against gays and women for a > > start. People can interpret documents as old > and > > nebulous as the Koran and Bible in many ways to > > suit their own ends. The old testament is full > of > > archaic nonsense that contravenes many of the > > accepted cultural norms of the 21st century > > ‘west’. > > > > Saying that you cannot accept Islam as a > ‘serious > > religion’ is an extremly agressive statement. > It > > is a fundamentalist opinion that does nothing > to > > help promote peace and understanding between > > different cultures. > > > like i said, muslims consider the words in the old > testament to be the word of god in the same way > that christians do. muslims also beleive that the > new testament is the word of god but that jesus > was just a prophet and not the messiah. sorry by > muslims, i mean so it is said in the koran. > > jews’ bible = old testament (plenty of bad stuff, > but outdated) > christian’s bible = new testament (nothing bad to > write home about) > islam’s bible = koran (has 60 pages about the > inequalities that should be forced upon women > specifically) I think you read something other than quran , Islam is all about equality (Islam is dealling with women as the weakest creature and that this weak creature should be given more care and respect ) .Please stop reading Quran as if you are reading a newspaper ,it is much more deeper and hard to interepret .