Nobody is enforcing a 6" pencil heels shoe. That’s a choice. The policies I have seen so far are around formal closed toe shoes for women
is there a line up of women who are suing the company because they’re uglier than the girl who got the job? does she not realize that a key reason why she got the job was her looks?
i feel like women are going to regret the day they demand they don’t get hired on their looks as it will mean men will start taking their jobs and wage inequality will probably rise again. it’s no surprise to anyone that inequality in the workplace is almost entirely due to biological factors (e.g. only moms have babies). you can’t fully acheive equality when this key difference exists between men and women.
MLA, men can be hired for looks as well… and men can be the ones who take leave from work to care for a baby.
You bring up a point about equality in the work place. I know the numbers say women still make less and that there are less women in certain careers. I often wonder if that is more about lack of interest from women to pursure certain careers. Could the descrepancy in incomes be more a function of the smaller sample size of women, in lets say finance, is less likely to include the individuals with the highest incomes out of the total distribution of incomes. The highest earners are a small sample out of the whole population of earners in finance. Since there are more men in the industry, a man is more likely to be one of those highest earners. Therefore, when the numbers are tallied up it appears men earn more. Is that a possibility? I had assumed that was the case becaue I have personally never felt discouraged in my experiences in physics/ research science or in finance. I have felt discouraged for being a newbie and unknowlagable… but never specifically because I am a women. Have women acutally achieved equaltiy? Maybe stop looking for reasons why cards are stacked against them and just DO what they want to do.
meh, I have lead an usual life. Perhaps I am not seeing the complete picture from a standard viewpoint.
^ There are other reasons explaining the discrepancy. I’ve heard many times that men ask for raises more often and are more demanding during salary reviews than women are. Men are also more willing to accept an offer from a competitor solely based on money rather than work/life balance. Also, whenever there are positions that open up, many more men apply with half the qualifications required in the job description. A lot of women wait until they feel they possess most of the qualifications before applying. This is a case where overconfidence in your abilities can help.
^^that makes a lot of sense. That sounds like me… I probably would not ask for a raise unless absolutely necessary and I like to go into everything overprepared.
This (general agressiveness) and that men are more likely than women to pursue a job in a city with no connections.
Are men more assertive because of biological factors or is it because of societal factors? Is it the testosterone or is it because men are expected to be the bread winner. A woman will never get dumped in a relationship because she isn’t making enough money or is underemployed or is not ambitious. If a man loses his job, the survival of his relationship is directly correlated by how quickly he finds another job. He is on the clock.
Well, men don’t want to live off their wives also because of testosterone.
seriously I make my at-home-chefs wear at least 4-6 inch heels … it makes the cooking harder but more fun to watch luckily most are women
let me clarify. not all women are hired on looks obviously. and not all men are not. it’s just that there are many more women who get hired on looks than men.
i would tend to agree that male assertiveness is key to the wage disparity. i would say this assertiveness is almost exclusively a function of societal factors. men tend to tie their self-worth to earning a good wage and taking care of their dependents financially. society forces the man to answer why his kids aren’t in sports and why his kid didn’t go to a better school or live in a better neighborhood.
a side factor is the fact that many women look for work later in life, after having kids, and never reach the same heights as many men. even the very smart women have a hard time making up that lost time.
this is why the fight for equality is so comical. inequality is almost entirely a function of circumstance and society’s expectations of men and women, not how women are treated or a lack of opportunity for women.
Didnt realize it was PwC… that makes it even funnier. Maybe they have to hire attractive women to wear heels to woo clients? They are by far the most incompetent accountants I have ever dealt with out of the Big 4
The thing is that women want MORE accomodation than men, when it comes to life work sort of policies. Ok maybe it can’t be helped that you get pregnant unlike men and value home life and family to a greater degree. But the fact of the matter is, women are a bad value in terms of career longevity, time off requirement, and willingness to put up with bad treatment at work. This justifies a wage gap. The definition of “equal” must take these factors into account. You cannot be “equal but different” when measuring things in dollar terms. No company has a policy that says “women are paid X and men are paid Y”. The wage difference, if any, arises out of coincident factors.
^ You believe treating people poorly is OK if they are paid a bit more?
I’m okay with being treated poorly if the pay is worth it. I’ve done so in the past and it didn’t bother me.
Every workplace has undesirable elements. Do you like working 50-60 hours a week? Going to work every day is a “poor” condition compared to what most people would rather be doing. You do not have to fixate on my choice of words. What I am saying is just that men are testosterone animals, and they will make more sacrifices for work, since they need to validate that they are successful and measure their self worth through careers.
Anyway, it doesn’t matter what I believe about poor workplace treatment. Many workplaces just have awful culture if life balance is a measure (I don’t set the rules here). Any NY investment bank has bad work/life balance and a competitive, business focused environment. There is no question that high endurance is required to put up with this for years. But if you want those six or seven figure bonuses, this is the price.
well said, Geo. That statement about “willingness to put up with bad treatment” did not sit well with me either. Otherwise, Ohai has a point. There is always a higher chance that a woman will end up leaving the firm or interupting her tenure due to child rasing issues. It’s not fair, but true. It especially sucks for women like myself who have no interest in starting a family … or for women who are paired with a stay at home dad. Pehaps gender roles will shift creating more equaltiy, but until then…
… three cheers to post menopausal women… may you rule the world!
Also, I would attribute most of the male assertiveness to testosterone. Particularly based on the documented effects for women that underwent hormone therapy in transitioning to male.
I was going to say this, but BS beat me to it.
Dude, there are a ton of people treated like crap for low pay. It may sound awful, but I bet you’d be surprised
Those are not mutually exclusive though. Being treated like crap is bad, low pay is bad. Obviously if you are going to be treated poorly, one would perfer to make more in salary. And if one were to make a low salary, they would perfer to be treated well. Ideally everyone would be treated well & paid well. High pay is not justification to treat people like crap.