Thinking of doing the FRM as a complement to CFA. Ultimately thinking that risk management is one of the cushier numbers in the industry. Intellectually stimulating without the stress of other jobs. Pay likely to be decent if not spectacular. A good entry point into HFs or IB. Lots of exit opps once there. Anyone acting as a risk manager? Insights? Any thoughts on the above approach.
Muddahudda Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thinking of doing the FRM as a complement to CFA. > Ultimately thinking that risk management is one of > the cushier numbers in the industry. > Intellectually stimulating without the stress of > other jobs. Pay likely to be decent if not > spectacular. A good entry point into HFs or IB. > Lots of exit opps once there. > > Anyone acting as a risk manager? Insights? Any > thoughts on the above approach. FRM and HFs or IB, lol, what will you do there? In my job search, I came across so many risk related job, risk related jobs are many (specially trader support and product control), but doing FRM to get into HF or IB job… hahahaha, your are filled with optimism!
In your job search… wtf. Do you have a job at an IB or HF? Do you even have a job? Are you qualified to comment? If yes, give me the insight I asked for. If no, stfu.
yes, I work in HF! Insight? Doing FRM to get HF or IB job is like joke of the century. That’s my “insight”
Are you the Borat of HFs?
^ getting into HF with FRM sounds like a Borat plan.
Funny that I have met several PMs & Head of RMs at HFs who list CFA & FRM on their bios. Must have been a typo right?
It depends on what roll you have in risk management. If you are more of a compliance role, it may not be a great position to transition into HF, etc. But for instance, from my current role (market risk management) I would think a transition to PM or analyst at a HF would be pretty straight forward. It is a great position for pay / hours worked balance and is intellectually stimulating. When I took this job it came down between an ER associate position at Stifel and this one. I definitely think this position was the right move for me as PM is in my longer term career goals. And I am definitely interested in pursuing the FRM in 2011. However, I am also working on a MS in Mathematics in the evenings and have an MS in Finance so I don’t know if FRM alone will get you where you want to go.
d0pa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > yes, I work in HF! > > Insight? > Doing FRM to get HF or IB job is like joke of the > century. That’s my “insight” Wow… talk about an unsolicited vulgar display of arrogant and rude behaviour in response to an earnest and innocent question. We surely are a humble and polite bunch here on AF, aren’t we!!!
i think the CFA kind of makes FRM a moot point…
d0pa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > yes, I work in HF! > > Insight? > Doing FRM to get HF or IB job is like joke of the > century. That’s my “insight” Near certainty says this clown is further from the trading operations in the HF he works for than most of the other jobs he’s hating on would be.
d0pa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > FRM and HFs or IB, lol, what will you do there? > > In my job search, I came across so many risk > related job, risk related jobs are many (specially > trader support and product control), but doing FRM > to get into HF or IB job… hahahaha, your are > filled with optimism! Have you read “Inside the house of Money?” Basically half the managers (ie. the sane ones who approach everything rather unemotionally) talk about how all they do is really purchase/manage risk. Thats all investing is at the end of the day. Risk=Reward
CFASniper Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > d0pa Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > yes, I work in HF! > > > > Insight? > > Doing FRM to get HF or IB job is like joke of > the > > century. That’s my “insight” > > > Wow… talk about an unsolicited vulgar display of > arrogant and rude behaviour in response to an > earnest and innocent question. > > We surely are a humble and polite bunch here on > AF, aren’t we!!! Sorry, didn’t realized it, my apologies! IMO, coursework of FRM is very interesting and jobs are intellectually stimulating as well. In fact all the people I know who work in risk management are very happy with their jobs while IB people are utterly frustrated with their jobs, few switched from IB to risk, just because of better life and much better work.
But I do think that risk management and investment management are two separate career paths. I certainly didn’t intended to undermine the value of risk management or certification. You can have FRM to increase your knowledge, which will definitely be helpful to you in long term, but I don’t think it will be helpful to get entry into HF/IB, and maybe my opinion is wrong, or absurd or unpopular, but I told you what I experienced, I didn’t knew we are searching for popular opinion. I think people totally misunderstood me earlier.
d0pa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I > didn’t knew we are searching for popular opinion. > I think people totally misunderstood me earlier. Perhaps, however, I would think any type of proactive manager is going to do as much DD in hedging against tail risk (ie. managing risk) as he will when placing his conviction trade. Especially in the world we live in.
ASSet_MANagement Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > d0pa Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I > > didn’t knew we are searching for popular > opinion. > > I think people totally misunderstood me > earlier. > > Perhaps, however, I would think any type of > proactive manager is going to do as much DD in > hedging against tail risk (ie. managing risk) as > he will when placing his conviction trade. > > Especially in the world we live in. Yes, in ideal scenario, a proactive must be doing risk management, looking at tail risk, finding probabilities. But what I have seen is that, they don’t do it, or even if you show it to them they don’t care about it, they prefer to go along with their “insights” and “gut”, so they don’t even look at it as this will dilute their conviction based on their “knowledge of business”. I know it sucks but it is what it is, maybe it’s with few cases I have encountered, they are not big funds (less then a billion). May be multi billion dollar funds do proper risk management. May be it’s the case with HY (in which I work), all your analysis will fail in front of fund manager’s “gut” on a simple reason from him; that it’s HY and their picks are possible “turnaround” stories. What backs their claim?, both the principals have been director at Goldman Sachs, nothing else. In fact one of the principal here is very skeptical of “mathematical artistry”, may be these people are outliers, but it’s my experience.
d0pa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > maybe it’s with few > cases I have encountered, they are not big funds > (less then a billion). May be multi billion dollar > funds do proper risk management. May be it’s the > case with HY (in which I work), all your analysis > will fail in front of fund manager’s “gut” on a > simple reason from him This is definitely what’s driving your perspective. In any major HF with $1B AUM as a minium, you will see highly paid quants and / or risk structures working to reconcile the risk / return aspects of positions. Justifying your statements using funds under $1B is like saying risk management hasn’t existed at any of the ice cream stands I’ve ever worked for. While stock pickers may exist (Buffet, etc) in the world of large AUM HF’s, they are a minority simply because it’s easier to sell a strategy and a quant analysis structure to arms length investors than it is an intangible management instinct. For road shows you can generate simulated past results by back testing your quant strategies and pull in solid AUM while if you’re a qualitatively skilled manager you will have to earn your historic returns the hard way, and even then it will be a tough sell to draw initial AUM. As Asset_Management pointed out, I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard PM’s say their function is to buy and sell risk.
Black Swan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > d0pa Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > maybe it’s with few > > cases I have encountered, they are not big > funds > > (less then a billion). May be multi billion > dollar > > funds do proper risk management. May be it’s > the > > case with HY (in which I work), all your > analysis > > will fail in front of fund manager’s “gut” on a > > simple reason from him > > This is definitely what’s driving your > perspective. In any major HF with $1B AUM as a > minium, you will see highly paid quants and / or > risk structures working to reconcile the risk / > return aspects of positions. Justifying your > statements using funds under $1B is like saying > risk management hasn’t existed at any of the ice > cream stands I’ve ever worked for. While stock > pickers may exist (Buffet, etc) in the world of > large AUM HF’s, they are a minority simply because > it’s easier to sell a strategy and a quant > analysis structure to arms length investors than > it is an intangible management instinct. For road > shows you can generate simulated past results by > back testing your quant strategies and pull in > solid AUM while if you’re a qualitatively skilled > manager you will have to earn your historic > returns the hard way, and even then it will be a > tough sell to draw initial AUM. As > Asset_Management pointed out, I can’t tell you how > many times I’ve heard PM’s say their function is > to buy and sell risk. +1
lol @ Ice Cream Shops
AM, drop me a line, we gotta make the facebook connection given the mutual interest in motorcycles, white water and partying. q.benjamin@gmail.com