Seriously. Willy, you’re an angry narcisstic f#. Why pour salt on someone’s wounds? Also that comment about talent on this board etc., What Kind of resumes do you expect when you post a crappy job? Your sample is going to be biased. Sorry if this is an indirect offense to those that submitted your resumes, but the people that applied were probably those that were looking to get their first chance at some real experience and lacked any real experience. What was it, a 55k job you offered? You make more working in ops at a BB.
Best wishes, you can get through this! Joey, let’s see how Brandon Sanderson finishes Robert Jordan’s WOT series
Wow, I am surprised at the amount of attention that my personal situation is getting. Yesterday was a bad day for me and I just needed some sort of ‘escape,’ as I learned that I was being let go after lunch and was still stuck in the office (in an awkward position no less). I can’t imagine a worse, awkward & uncomfortable position than the one I was in for the last few hours (yesterday). I am sorry if my posting came out as anything but that. Today I feel much better and my perspective on the matter has changed somewhat. I am not bitter or angry. I was never bitter or angry in the first place. Disappointed is probably the best word to characterize my state of mind. You will never hear me complain about my situation. There a lot of people on the board who’s having a hard time breaking in, and there are people who have been searching for jobs for months and months. In this context, my situation is relatively minor. To a certain degree, I agree with Willy (though most of his comments are bitter and inappropriate). Like Willy said, people get fired all the time and that’s the nature of the beast. However, I am not disappointed by what happened (getting laid off), I am more disappointed as to what COULD have happened but DIDN’T happened. Maybe it’s best to cue you guys in on my situation to better understand the last comment. I graduated college in 2004 and worked at a well-respected independent research firm that specialized in short recommendations. It was a very taxing 2 years but an incredibly rewarding “education” nevertheless. Anyone who ever specialize on the short side will probably understand what that means. Those two years were some of the worse years for finding short ideas ($500M+ cap). I decided to jump to the “buy side”/hedge fund afterwards. When I made that transition, the hedge fund industry was in the upswing and there were an incredible amount of demand for bottoms-up-oriented analyst. Long-short funds were seeking out any analyst who could perform on the short side as many PMs were having a hard time getting their short book to 20%-30% of AUM (these were pre-30/30 fund days). At my old firm, there were significant turnover as a result. For me, I didn’t follow that route since I didn’t want to be “pigeonhole” as a short specialist, which a lot of my friends ultimately became. Don’t get me wrong, being a short is very fun and satisfying. But I prefer both worlds. I joined my current employer after basically a week worth of searching. Note: I wasn’t sloppy with my search. The situation at that time was simply want I wanted. The PMs there had very good background. Their performance was good and their assets grew as a result. What made it an ideal situation was that it was a young, small (4 people) firm and I could easy see myself as a major contributor to the fund. When you’re only 24 and ambitious, and just started out in the business, this is what you seek. For me at least. The PMs were young too (~mid to late 30’s) and I saw them more as buddies than bosses. More important, they saw my performance/ability and judged me on that. They didn’t see my age as a hindrance. At that time, I didn’t have 100% discretion as to what stocks to add/subtract/build but they were very flexible. There were some hand-holding but for the most parts, I was able to recommend ideas and was judged accordingly. You couldn’t ask for a better opportunity. Secretly, I thought we could be the next Greenlight or Northrun. We went the whole nine yards when it came to due diligence. Every company we encounter, we tried to know more about the company than the “street” (which was typically the case). Indeed in some cases, at times, we knew more about the industry than the companies themselves. We look at special situations and complex companies that a lot of funds eschew. Heck, we shorted stocks that a lot of “smart money” was invested in. We didn’t feel that we were superior in any fashion; we felt that we work harder than anyone. As trite as it might sound, I enjoyed going to work. For the first 18 months that I was there, things were great. Everyone was very friendly and we never had any conflict with one another. Performance on both the long and the short books were outstanding. The longs would go up when the market goes up but flat to slightly down when the market dropped. We had one or two bad months with the shorts but for the majority of the months, we made very good money on the shorts. Overall, I don’t think we had a down month over that span. I would imagine that our LPs were pretty happy with our performance; they were also relatively quiet (we felt they were “sticky” money). We start talking about expanding and moving in a new building. In the last 6 months, our longs just fell off the cliff. Our shorts continue to do well but some of our longs kept dropping. The funny thing was that the longs that were declining were stocks that were in the portfolio for a long time (i.e. our basis was lower and we were still in the money or flat). Unfortunately, these longs were also illiquid (i.e. we bought them when the firm had a smaller AUM base). We never made sector bets or have high concentration in any sector (housing, retail, oil & gas) but our LPs began to ask question about sector concentration, etc in light of performance. The PMs here were frustrated but cordial. I could understand their frustration, after all, the firm had a great 4 year track record and despite the poor performance in the last six months, we still beat the benchmark (albeit marginally). LPs who put money in 2006/7 began to ask for their money back. Then January 08 came and like everyone we got hit hard (mid single digit decline, LOTs of volatility). The Redemption really picked up (according to our CFO). I don’t want to get into too much details but the CFO said he started talking to a recruiter recently. I was told that fund of funds were cutting back on their exposure of micro-cap/small-cap long-short funds. How much of that is true is still unknown to me. How much money was pulled out of the fund is a mystery to me as well. But I was shocked to hear that the situation was that dire. There are so many questions left unanswered. If our PMs knew that we were facing redemption (90 day policy), then why did they boost my salary and bonus for FY08? So many positive body languages from guys who have been straightforward with me since I started working. The CFO said its very hard to raise money right now. How true is his statement? I don’t know. I expected great things for the funds. I know I shouldn’t have “invested so much emotionally” into the fund, but I did. I expected to stay with the firm for a reasonably long time. None of that will happen and how ALL of this unfolds so quickly is quite scary. Someone told me recently that Greenlight at one point had 1/4 of their fund in Freescale, which had been taken private but is suffering mightily. What would have happened to Greenlight had Freescale NOT been taken private and stayed public. It’s a scary thought. When Pirate Capital went under, a lot of people were not shocked since Pirate were shooting from the hip and really didn’t do their homework on some name. But it’s a different matter when a fund like Narragansett, well-respected health care fund, goes south. I always knew that it was a tough industry, I just didn’t realize how much Luck is necessary to survive in this industry. My friend made a comment a long time ago that No One in the hedge fund/fund of fund industry is truly a “patient long-term investor.” I think there’s some truth to this comment. It makes you wonder whether all the hard work (CFA studying, long hours, trips to companies corporate office, delaying/forgoing vacations) was really worth it. I tell myself that the answer is indeed yes, but in the back of my mind there is some doubts. The scariest thought is that you work your butt off all this years and then come to realize that there are things you can’t control. I am going to stop here because I am just rambling on and on…
Sorry to hear that and best of luck to you.
Why did they give you a raise and bonus? Management always lie. They’ll never tell you the truth. Just look at the little people at enron, they were lied to and got their 401k to 0.
Negative, Hang in there man. Based on your previous post, you have a lot of industry knowledge and experience that will benefit you down the road. This stuff always comes and goes in cycles. Keep your head up and jump on the next opportunity that comes along. I think that with your experience, you are well positioned for when things pick back up.
negativefcf, it sounds like you have a good handle on things and you have a pretty interesting “story” to tell. i am sure things will work out for you in due time – just be persistent and draw upon every contact you might have. in fact, why not ask the people at your current firm to give you some leads? i’m sure they understand the unfortunate situation at your company as much as anybody, and if they’re really good colleagues, they’ll help you get back on your feet. as hard as it might be, just try not to get too sentimental about things, and look forward to the opportunity to land yourself at a place that’s even better than where you are now. the job market is quite tight but the sooner you get started on things, the better off you’ll be.
Lighten up! You have 2-years experience in short recommendations…vital experience for a hedgie not to mention a decent track record at a L/S fund for a few years. That’s not something everyone can boast.
NegFCF, it sounds like your managers genuinely appreciated you and gave you a bonus because they wanted to give you a pat on the back while they still could. The bonus will help tie you over while looking for a new job. A cr*ppy manager would have said “sorry, no bonus this year, and, by the way, you’re no longer here after 5pm today.” My guess is that these guys will give you a good reference for a new job, and in an interview you can just say that the fund faced redemptions that weren’t your fault, your managers liked you and future employers can call you up. So, bottom line, it sucks, and you’re likely to have competition from other downsizees, but you’re not “tainted” in any way by this, which is both important and reason for optimism!
Thanks for all the positive reinforcement.
Sounds like it’s time for a vacation to somewhere nice and warm! Your mind will be clearn and rejuvenated when you get back to start your job searc.
sorry to hear. in the interim period, i would suggest collecting unemployment comp from the state of massachussetts. i’ve done it. collecting unemployment shouldn’t be a pride issue – you would effectively be collecting money back from the government that you have been contributing to all along. it should at least cover every day expenses like rent. also, you should check out the job listings on bloomberg, there are a couple opportunities listed in the boston area
Thanks Heorotian, I will make sure to it on my list of things to to-do.
My neighbor collected unemployment, severance and then she got really tired, saw a doctor, got diagnosed with chronic fatique syndrome, and now collects disability. Ain’t america great!
Been there, done that. Twice, I have been laid off. Sorry it happened to you this time. I am glad you sound upbeat and have positive attitude. I suppose you are able to shrug off and keep going. I do not believe things happen for a reason, but you can make it that way. Make the best of the situation and you will be able to say, “You know, it turns out that that was the best thing that happened to me,” later on. Best of luck!
negative, unfortunately when the crunch comes its often just the LIFO effect. By the sound of it you have your act together, you’re able to reflect on the experience, and have some good insights into the industry and the markets. You’re young, articulate, undertand the big picture, have some great experience, and probably have a pile of friends and contacts in the industry. It’s a numbers game - the more people you talk to, the quicker you get back into the game. stay positive (change your handle?) (speaking of handles - willy’s obviously got willy-envy or willy-isues - just ignore it)
hell, it’s happened to me TWICE. i know how you feel. but hang in there. it’s gonna be tough finding a new job given sub prime and all in the short term, but hey at least you got lots of time to study CFA right?
Done with the CFA (thankfully).
negative, you have a lot of good industry insight and are a credit to this board. I think from the looks of your posts you are going place my friend. Keep you head up and stick around!