----------------------- Economist article “AMERICANS like to think of themselves as martyrs to work. They delight in telling stories about their punishing hours, snatched holidays and ever-intrusive BlackBerrys. At this time of the year they marvel at the laziness of their European cousins, particularly the French. Did you know that the French take the whole of August off to recover from their 35-hour work weeks? Have you heard that they are so addicted to their holidays that they leave the sick to die and the dead to moulder?” ----------------------- It is really strange, this self imposed obligation to be a society zombie, to brag about doing things that are not in your own best interest. Why do it?
If we had any art and culture we would take holidays too.
what’s so hard to understand - capitalism.
Not really strange. Create value. I had the choice to do whatever I wanted with my life when I turned 18 (well to an extent my parent’s would have disowned me if I decided to live in a van down by the river smoking weed all day and selling rocks and gems I found).
Nope, still don’t understand. How is one’s life sucking creating value, and for who?
Well, this work ethic thing called American capitalism feeds the whole of the United States and tens of millions of other people outside of it; it produces the vast majority of medical advancements; and it lays claim to some of the world’s most world altering advancements in the history of the human race, such as the harnessing of electricity, flight, nuclear technology, and the microchip. And the French have done… And I’m aware that many of those advancements came from foreigners (Einstein, Tessla) who hung their hat in the United States.
With capitalism, I would say that you could possibly end up with the Prisoners Dilemma. Sure, the majority of people in the US would probably want to take a month off, but what would you do if your competitor was taking that month off? You would work to gain an advantage. Your competitor, when faced with the same option would choose the same decision. Also works for individual workers. If everyone else in my department were taking a month off, I would work hard during that time. Come promotion time, I’d look much more impressive. My co-workers would probably see a similar opportunity to shine, and also work during that time. Just my initial thought. P.S. You could always move to France if you like it that way.
too many americans are slaves to thier work…don’t take time to “smell the roses” There’s more to life then working 80 hours a week and being miserable
^and the idiotic generalization of the day goes to…
JensensalphaMale Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > P.S. You could always move to France if you like > it that way. +1. Seriously, if we’re on the topic of generalizations, no one’s being stopped from moving to France if you want to be lazy, fat, greasy, arrogant, obnoxious, and hairy. If you like your women with armpit hair and BO then gay Paree is the place for thee.
I said too many…I didn’t say every. …and I also didn’t say not to work hard why’s that hard to understand? if you’ve ever lived overseas (I have no idea if you have or not) you’ll realize this. I use to be the same way…work work work, no real vacations, always trying to get one step ahead, etc. Its just teh way our society is. I’ve heard one too many stories of people being in their 40’s and saying to themselves where has time gone, why didn’t I do this, why didn’t I go there, etc etc.
My question revolves around why, from the individual’s perspective. …how do the benefits of you giving your life to society benefit you? Why wouldn’t you embrace the month of August off, as that would certainly be something you would want I would think, instead of hating the French. Prisoners dilemma is the best explanation I’ve heard, myopia.
purealpha Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why wouldn’t you embrace the > month of August off, as that would certainly be > something you would want I would think, instead of > hating the French. I don’t think people hate the French for taking a month off, I think they hate the French because of their arrogant and obnoxious we’re-so-much-better-than-America-because-we-take-a-month-off attitude, while they can’t seem to understand why they’re perceived as the armpit of caucasian civilization.
Well, I think there are a couple of questions. 1) Why work more than French people? When you have largely unregulated employment for “exempt” FLSA jobs combined with at will employment competition for jobs is much more fierce and the market favors the employers compared to the French system. There are lots of obvious things that come along with this…. 2) Why brag about working more than French people In this case the main explanation I can think of is to make yourself feel better about working so much by denigrating those who do not work as much. Sort of along the same lines as the “Why be a doctor, their insurance is insane, plus you don’t enter the workforce until yada, yada, yada” debates finance folks get into.
JohnThainsLimoDriver Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > purealpha Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > Why wouldn’t you embrace the > > month of August off, as that would certainly be > > something you would want I would think, instead > of > > hating the French. > > I don’t think people hate the French for taking a > month off, I think they hate the French because of > their arrogant and obnoxious > we’re-so-much-better-than-America-because-we-take- > a-month-off attitude, while they can’t seem to > understand why they’re perceived as the armpit of > caucasian civilization. …and you wonder why the rest of the world hates us. I was on a trip oveseas a few years ago to 13 diff countries and they all said the same thing when they met me and found out I was an american 1) they rolled their eyes 2) after they got to know me they would all say "Gee, you’re not an arrogrant prick who thinks they’re better then everyone else while I do agree that a greater percent of the french are less then motivated then other countries, I don’t think it’s fair to label them as a whole as lazy people…just like I dont’ think it’s fair to label americans as a whole as arrogant pricks. just my 2 cents
jrs130 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > …and you wonder why the rest of the world hates > us. Actually I don’t wonder that at all. Only self-hating low-esteem surrender-monkey-loving facsists assume that everyone hates America. I don’t.
Don’t generalize, I know plenty of self-hating low-esteem surrender-monkey-loving facsists who don’t think everyone hates america.
Open up a history book. You can not change years of North American culture over night, just like you can change years of European culture over night. America would not be in the place it is today, there would no such thing as an American dream if the mentality did not work like that. This is why there is no such thing as a French Dream, why so many hard working poor Europeans left their country for greater opportunity else where. Its like asking a Swedish person why on earth they work hard to get a top wage if they pay 60%+ taxes…
Here is an example, I wander in today in a daze of bliss, and the following event combined with Economist article triggers my AF post. My manager friend comes to talk to me. She tells me she was glued to her Blackberry all vacation, even though she just told me she is getting burnout and needed vacation, she works 8-8 usually, and she goes home and answers emails to midnight. I said “why?”. She said, “because she doesn’t want to miss a thing”. I said “is it expected” (cause I’m thinking of taking a job with her portfolio)? She said “no not really, I’m just type A”. All the time there is this subtle bragging from her about how her life voluntarily sucks. Observation - gradually these people become fatter and more stressed and eat more fast food and more pills…GDP benefits from their cycle of stupidity, but how do they benefit.
adehbone Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- This is why there is no such thing as a French Dream, why so > many hard working poor Europeans left their > country for greater opportunity else where. and this is the whole point. It is explicitly built into their culture. they dont have to run around loudly trumpeting their culture to anyone that will listen.