small company with limited growth and less competitive environment, decent pay but flat pyramid, not much room for advancement but stable big firm with professional development programs but super competitive, not that much pay but many opportunities to network and meet people, can climb up the rank but no job security which one to go for late 20s with about 3+ yrs experience?
I believe in 20s and 30s one should work on bigger firms and once they are in middle to senior management, join the small firm as a partner or EVP kind of profile. Just my opinion
i agree that it seems like the norm these days. also people tend to change jobs more often, such as jumping among big firms. not sure which one adds more value to the resume: 10yrs in a small firm or 3 yrs each in several big firms… the latter seems to be valued higher although one may learn much more in a small firm. pupdawg82 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I believe in 20s and 30s one should work on bigger > firms and once they are in middle to senior > management, join the small firm as a partner or > EVP kind of profile. > > Just my opinion
pupdawg82 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I believe in 20s and 30s one should work on bigger > firms and once they are in middle to senior > management, join the small firm as a partner or > EVP kind of profile. > > Just my opinion Came in here to write this. ALIMAN was faced with a similar dilemma earlier this year and we talked about it a lot on Gchat, he went to the big firm.
was it the same logic behind the decision? ASSet_MANagement Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > pupdawg82 Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > I believe in 20s and 30s one should work on > bigger > > firms and once they are in middle to senior > > management, join the small firm as a partner or > > EVP kind of profile. > > > > Just my opinion > > > Came in here to write this. > > ALIMAN was faced with a similar dilemma earlier > this year and we talked about it a lot on Gchat, > he went to the big firm.
My impression is that the value of big firm names has diminished recently. Given that ML, BS, Lehman etc. have all failed, people don’t trust the big IBs as much as they used to. Of course, this doesn’t mean that there is no value in big names - just somewhat less than before. Anyway, without knowing anything else about your background or these two job offers, it seems like you could quit the big firm and join a small firm at some point in the future. However, the converse would be more difficult. So, given that you are relatively young and assuming you are open to some exploration, it might be worthwhile to try out the big firm job.
Big firm = big network. Go big firm early in your career.
Skies Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > was it the same logic behind the decision? > > ASSet_MANagement Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > pupdawg82 Wrote: > > > -------------------------------------------------- > > > ----- > > > I believe in 20s and 30s one should work on > > bigger > > > firms and once they are in middle to senior > > > management, join the small firm as a partner > or > > > EVP kind of profile. > > > > > > Just my opinion > > > > > > Came in here to write this. > > > > ALIMAN was faced with a similar dilemma earlier > > this year and we talked about it a lot on > Gchat, > > he went to the big firm. What everyone else has been saying Better training, better resources, better technology (usually), better exit ops, better recognition on application to continuting education, more opportunities to explore other facets of the business model, better perks.
I would say it really depends on what you’re looking for. Career advancement -> big firm Work/life balance -> small firm Stability and less human-abuse -> small firm Furture opportunities -> big firm It’s not a guarantee that you’ll fare well in the big firm. Also, you have to consider that your whole life can be totally engulfed with working at the big firm, with less immediate return. I personally went with a medium firm but it’s because I value work/life balance more than $$$. A small firm can drive you insane if you have even one person that is hard to work with. However, in a medium / big firm, you can avoid. lol.
I also think that there is less human-abuse in small firms…what would be the examples of a medium firm? What are people’s perspectives on seeing multiple big firm names on the resume versus many years with one/two small firms?
I think both offer pros and cons. Since the pro-big group is fairly well-represented, let me add a bit on the pro-small front. (N.B. I work at a smaller firm.) At a smaller shop, you generally have more flexibility to choose what to work on, and you can advance at your own pace, rather than be in lock step with others around you. You’re also going to have a greater influence on how your firm does. This is important for comp purposes, industry knowledge, and quality of life. I’ve seen many people disenchanted with being a cog in giant IB. At a big bank, you’ll have a lot of dead weight to carry, including layers and layers of middle management. You’ll rarely if ever have any contact with the major decision makers. This also means more office politics. At a smaller shop, you’ll have to wear more hats and at points play different roles. This is a good match for certain personality types, and tends to be useful for later on in one’s career as one takes on managerial roles. Also, at a smaller shop, you have less Beta risk. This is very, very important for a variety of reasons.
^Answer is, employers want to see you at only a few firms, not many. If you’re donig the skip every few years, it raises red flags. Companies, big or small, value loyalty. Big name is preferrably, but depending on the industry and area, it might be different. For me, I don’t have big fortune 500 companies on my resume, but I have smaller/medium sized firms that are well-known as “boutique” firms in my area. More than the firm size, it’s about how long you stay at a firm and who you know, and your skill set.
justin88 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Also, at a smaller shop, you have less Beta risk. > This is very, very important for a variety of > reasons. Also, at a larger shop, you end up having a lot of firm-specific risk in your PA if your company is publicly traded. As you progress higher and higher, you become locked into a huge amount of your company’s equity in your PA, since your bonuses are increasingly equity-based. This can work out well if your firm is wildly successful. It can be awful if your firm implodes or if (as OM says) you jump ship quickly without getting bought out of your non-vested equity.
^^^This risk is heightened if you are a principal in a smaller firm though, right? Or is the point the in a smaller firm you are theoretically more in control of your destiny?
small firm all the way, the more years you have in industry at big firms the more you will agree. large firms are full of idiots that got their positions through nepotism, small firms it is all about merit. And lol at people that think small firms are risker then large ones, via bear/lehmen/etc.
Re timotimo: what would be considered the career advancement in a small firm? Although small firms might be based on merit more relative to the big firms, I also think that small firms can have office politics as well. If you are not close to the powers you are also exposed to being squeezed by “parties”.
You should carefully ask yourself if you like competition or not. I can’t find any motivation to work without competition, I get lethargic without competition. I feel bored in a very stable environment, because of that reason I left engineering to come into finance. I joined a small firm because of all those good reasons to join a small firm, but I realized it later that big firm environment is more suitable for me. I’m planning to switch to a big firm now. I think the decision to join small firm or big firm depends more on your personality, you should think about what kind of environment will bring out your best and what kind of environment will make you happy.
timotimo Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > small firm all the way, the more years you have in > industry at big firms the more you will agree. > > large firms are full of idiots that got their > positions through nepotism, small firms it is all > about merit. > > And lol at people that think small firms are > risker then large ones, via bear/lehmen/etc. If you think there isn’t nepotism at smaller firms as well you’re crazy. Many small firms have familial ownership structures - there’s no absolute right or wrong answer, but just as with a large firm, make sure you understand the culture and environment you’re joining.
d0pa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > You should carefully ask yourself if you like > competition or not. I can’t find any motivation to > work without competition, I get lethargic without > competition. I feel bored in a very stable > environment, because of that reason I left > engineering to come into finance. I joined a small > firm because of all those good reasons to join a > small firm, but I realized it later that big firm > environment is more suitable for me. I’m planning > to switch to a big firm now. > > I think the decision to join small firm or big > firm depends more on your personality, you should > think about what kind of environment will bring > out your best and what kind of environment will > make you happy. How small is small? I’m at a really small firm, 10-20, and I have virtually no competition. The small firm atmosphere, like you said, is very stable and I have grown bored as well. I’m the youngest person here by 10 years who actually has a hand in the investment process. Most of the people at my firm are in their mid 30s and have had their fun at the larger AM shops of the world. You’re spot on about the competition. Why should I try to run a mile in 5 minutes when I’m the only one on the track and 7 minutes looks just as fast as 5 to my superiors? I need that competition to drive me.
Chuckrox8 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > How small is small? I’m at a really small firm, > 10-20, and I have virtually no competition. The > small firm atmosphere, like you said, is very > stable and I have grown bored as well. I’m the > youngest person here by 10 years who actually has > a hand in the investment process. Most of the > people at my firm are in their mid 30s and have > had their fun at the larger AM shops of the world. > You’re spot on about the competition. Why should > I try to run a mile in 5 minutes when I’m the only > one on the track and 7 minutes looks just as fast > as 5 to my superiors? I need that competition to > drive me. ditto here! When you see no one else is running, you’ll automatically slow down yourself. Small firm gives you scope to try out innovative stuff, but at end you don’t feel motivated to try out innovative stuff… It’s not a generalized statement, but I am sure many suffer same situation. I learned a lot here, but I can’t stay here for a long time, so much relaxed environment is driving down my productivity now. Some small firms might be very aggressive about alpha and they might have a challenging work environment, but it’s more likely that if a firm is small it’ll be very relaxed and probably a place to relax for people who had fun in big banks for decades.