While i get the point you were trying to make. He was the one getting extra freaky with a passed out corpse on the ground
I don’t think arguing against “drunk means no consent” therefore means you argue “drunk implies consent”.
I see Ohai as saying that drunk + reliable proof of consent while drunk means “it was not rape.” I think Ohai’s point about people being responsible for bad decisions made while drunk is valid, but they actually have to act on those bad decisions in order to be responsible for them. If a man forces himself on a woman while he is drunk, he is still a rapist. If she gives some kind of verifiable consent while drunk, it is not rape. It’s merely a bad decision made while drunk. The grey area comes from whether one party is using drunkenness to manipulate the other into a bad decision. Those are the cases where it becomes really tricky to draw the line.
That suggests that drunk sex isn’t automatically rape, it’s just dangerous. Which of course it is, and for more reasons than threat of rape or of being called a rapist.
How do you know she didn’t lose consciousness as he was running away or maybe she was in and out? They certainly had shots right before they left the house. I’ve had a girlfriend pass out or go to sleep, no idea which one. It’s just not that cut and dry. I’ve seen people pass out mid sentence. I had no idea they were that hammered.
if she was so drunk that she cannot say that she did or did not consent, that is an issue. she put herself into a state that made it impossible for her to defend herself either physically or legally. that said, given this specific circumstance, with the alleged rapist fleeing when caught with the unconscious girl, i think it is pretty cut and dry that he was doing something wrong. if he hadn’t of run, i think it would be a different story and a hard case to prove.
if men are expected to avoid sex while drunk to avoid legal issues, women should avoid excessive alcohol consumption without proper safeguards (e.g. large groups, a familiar environment, etc) to avoid legal issues.
This if drunk, no consent is interesting. So if I give a drunk person a ride, am I guilty of kidnapping, no consent afterall.
Two dudes were cursing at him. Probably thought he was about to get his ass kicked. He may have raped her, but it certainly was premeditated. You think he left the house with the intent to rape this girl? He thought he was going to get some consensual action no doubt.
Update. The guy got his sentence reduced to 2 months instead of 6 months
I only see one source referencing this and I think they reduced it BY two months. I do agree though that six months was light and anything less is just too little.
I don’t have a clue what the facts of the case are, much less an opinion on what the sentence should be. If someone has the facts, more than he put his fingers in her at somepoint during the evening and he was seen on top of her possibly while she was unconscious, please share.
^ He was convicted by a jury of assault with intent to commit rape of an intoxicated woman, sexually penetrating an intoxicated person with a foreign object, and sexually penetrating an unconscious person with a foreign object.
Interesting that intoxicated matters. Still, facts are hard to come by. Maybe a victim privacy thing. We knew how far, in feet, Nicole brown’s blood was splattered.
In legal terms, are fingers foreign objects?
In CA, yes they are.
^ good question.
Anyone else read her 12 page letter? I was very impressed with how well written it was and how effectively I thought she communicated the problem and her struggles with it. It was very eye opening and really helped me empathize with her.
No doubt I think this should be a HUGE part of sex ed that should really be taught in highschool. there is sometimes a blurry line in todays party/binge drinking environment and cases like this are slowly but surely eradicating that line, but no doubt this needs to be taught as a preventive measure.
One of the major networks said he’ll spend 3 months in jail and be out
That assumes he doesn’t rape anyone in prison.
I need to go to law school. So you can’t put fingers in a drunk person with or without their consent? Never knew I was asking somebody to break the law. I know states do differ and sodomy is illegal in some and not others. I bet my doctor hopes I’m sober for my next physical.
Sounds like it, from the post earlier, but the foreign object that was at issue in this case was whichever one left pine needles and dirt in her V.
^I read only digital, as in finger, penetration was alleged. Maybe dirty fingers. I’ll take no pine needle left in vagina for $500.