Going to have to side with ltj here. Although I don’t watch them a ton, the team seems to change pretty frequently based on personnel. When Brady first started playing, they had a strong defense and Brady was kind of a game manager, throwing around 500 times per season with fewer than 30 TDs per season. The year they got Moss, he upped the attempts and threw 50 TDs. With their defense being pretty suspect in more recent years, the passing attempts are up quite a bit and so are TD totals, all with a carousel of receivers and running backs. I realize the league has changed over the years and most (if not all) teams are throwing more, but where are all the other guys who came into the league in the early 2000s? Other than Brees and Carson Palmer, they pretty much all sucked or had a few good years before fading away, at least until you get to Eli, Big Ben and Rivers. It seems to me that the system is Brady. Even watching last night, it seemed that with the addition of Brandin Cooks, the Pats are now a vertical passing team.
Right.
Brady + Moss/Welker in 2007 = 50 TD, 8 INT, 4800 yards. Lost zero regular season games, made the Super Bowl.
Cassel + Moss/Welker in 2008 = 21 TD, 11 INT, 3600 yards. Lost five regular season games, missed playoffs.
Same job? Give me a freaking break.
That’s cool, I respect that. I’d also ask you to consider the following:
Marvin Harrison - 1st round pick. Reggie Wayne - 1st round pick. Both are going to wind up in the HOF. Manning played nearly his entire career with at least one if not both of these guys. The talent put around him in Denver was arguably just as good. That 2013 team was stacked.
Flip over to Brady and what are we talking about here system wise. Wes Welker? Undrafted. Julian Edelman? 7th round pick, was a college QB. Sure he had Moss, but Moss was 30 in 2007, and was basically on his last legs by the time Brady came back from his ACL in 2009. Gronk? You can fill in the blank there. I don’t think Troy Brown is getting invites to Canton any time soon. Maybe as a cornerback.
It’s not as black and white as some of you pretend.
^Let me ask you a question:
When asked about Jimmy Johnson’s success, Jerry Jones once said that any of about 50 coaches would have won three rings with that roster. I agree with Jerry–with one caveat: Jimmy Johnson built the roster!!!
So to say “well–Peyton had Reggie Wayne” is a bit of a misnomer. An accurate statement might be “Peyton GOT Reggie Wayne”. (Marvin Harrison joined the Colts before Brady.)
And let’s not forget that there’s defense and special teams to consider in a team’s success.
Let’s also put this in perspective:
As you mentioned before–the 2007 Patriots won 16 games. The next year, they won 11 games without Brady. So you could say Brady is worth five games.
The 2002-2009 Colts won at least 12 games every year. In 2010, they won 10 games. In 2011 (without Peyton Manning), they won 2 games. So you could say Peyton Manning is worth 8-10 games.
(I’m using your logic–not mine.)
These conversations would not even be taking place if beast mode punches in a one yarder and the falcons dont sh!t the bed.
Competitive football games always come down to one or two plays. They could just as easily have 7 as 3.
David Tyree doesn’t catch a ball on his helmet… or Reche Caldwell catches an easy touchdown in the 2006 AFC Championship (the one year Manning got a ring)… or Welker pulls down that pass in the second Giants Super Bowl.
Nice try though. Look at you doing things on a Friday. Proud.
That’s not my logic sir. I wrote that in a reply to the idea that Matt Cassel did “Brady’s job” with a nearly identical team the following year. That was simply untrue like I laid out.
Also that’s not the best example as the Colts were legitimately tanking for Andrew Luck, but whatever.
The best of all time, is clearly that guy… you know the one I mean. Tall guy… Plays for that team that won the big game last year. You guys know the one…
Belicheat vs Caldwell. Laughable. Boston fans are delusional about their golden boy
Fwiw, Tony Dungy was the Colts head coach for seven years. Caldwell coached them for three. And they did wind up in the Super Bowl with Caldwell, but Manning’s pick 6 all but ended that one. I’m sure it was the coaches fault tho.
I used to agree, but numbers don’t lie. Brady is 4th in all-time passing yards (Manning, Favre, Brees), 4th in all-time passing TD’s (Manning, Favre, Brees), 2nd in career TD to Int ratio (Rodgers), and 2nd in career QB rating (Rodgers). Brady has played 28 (maybe it’s 27 after last night) fewer games than Manning and trails him by about 10,000 passing yards and 83 TD’s (again, that’s probably before last night). Give Brady 28 more games, and he’s likely going to be very close to Manning’s numbers with a superior rating and far superior TD to Int ratio. Even if he retired today, I have to go Brady over Manning due to the rings, SB appearances, and AFC title game appearances with a hodgepodge of players around him. Even Reggie Wayne said Brady is the best QB ever.
Of course if Rodgers plays 6-8 more years, this discussion might be moot.
brady is def the goat. he is not the most physically talented guy but he will outwork you and outsmart you.
having BB and playing in the same system most of his career also helps
looks like witten will have 0 super bowls
Say it ain’t so!!!
”Nothing definite at this time” is the official word from Mr. Jones, who is always 100% honest and forthcoming about his team and players.
Guess he’s missing Dez too much.