I didn’t vote yesterday, so this is more of a philosophical question than a complaint. I strongly dislike both candidates, and, living in California, my vote wouldn’t have mattered either way since Obama was assured victory in the state.
But that said, my entire facebook page is now lit up with people expressing absolute joy at Obama’s victory – I guess people are dancing in the streets and crying they’re so happy (literally if the posts are accurate). I actually thought that I didn’t care about the outcome of the race (they’re both pretty much the same candidate for the issues I care about, so what’s the difference?) but I’m having a surprisingly negative visceral reaction to Obama winning.
Someone explain the jubiliation to me – why is the next four years going to be less shitty than the previous four?
Again, I’m not trying to start a flame war (although that may be inevitable on AF) – I am genuinely interested in trying to understand why so many people are excited about more of the same. It’s clear to me that very little has gone right over the last four years in this country, but I guess I have the minority view on that, so enlighten me – why is this time going to be different / better?
The major difference with Obama, in my opinion, is that he has comparatively little to do now. The major work for Obamacare has been done, and there is no all-consuming financial crisis to deal with. So the question is… what is Obama going to do now? Will he attack structural and fiscal problems with the same zeal that he committed to healthcare reform? Or will he give further support to liberal agendas to try to cement the support of the Democratic base for 2016? There is a chance that something will be different, but it’s still uncertain at this point.
Also, I hope you like taxes, because 1% to 3% Jerry Brown tax is coming your way…
I don’t vote either (represent!), but have generally supported Obama.
I’m confused, someone asked me the other day if I really want a repeat of the last four years. You mentioned the last four years being so sh*tty. Why do people seem to think the last four years were so terrible?
I’m genuinely confused by this sentiment. I felt like things have been genuinly recovering from a serious economic shock. The only explanation I can think of is that non-financial types don’t understand deleveraging and are pinning the side effects on Obama.
Anyhow, insights welcome. I’ll try to restrain myself from being my usual self since this is a legitimate question.
I agree that it’s not Obama’s fault that the economy tanked, but he has increased the deficit substantially and grown the entitlement base, and that is on him. Those are exactly the two things we should not be doing right now in my opinion, and, from the looks of it, exactly the two things we’re probably going to keep doing during his second term.
Well, I mean, deficit spending is a big part of trying to fix any economic downturn. I would be extremely alarmed to see a surplus developing over the past four years in the midst of global strain and our own deleveraging. That, in my mind, would fit the bill as poor management of an economy. So you could argue running a deficit was a large part of what he did to fix the economy. I’m confused what else people feel should have been done? Again, legitimate question, not trying to argue.
What should have been done? This is just my opinion:
Restructure the banking system and put legitimate controls on Wall Street – it’s hard to argue that this was not the #1 issue in the country over the last four years, and he failed on both.
Put some legitimate plan forth to clean up the mortgage disaster at a consumer level.
Restructure the entitlement programs in some fair way so that we don’t go bankrupt
End the wars overseas (he said he was going to do that)
–
Excluding, perhaps, the overseas commitments (which are debatable), what could possibly be more important than the top 3 items on that list for the country’s long-term fiscal viability? The gap in importance between those issues and everything else being discussed is huge. I still haven’t heard any viable plan at all for addressing the top 3 issues on the list.
I know exactly what you mean, Bromion. Same thing on my facebook. I actually tried to see if I could filter out posts that have anything to do with Obama.
Here’s my conclusion on why this is happening:
I’ve decided that Obama and liberalism are a religion for these people. They are essentially Jihadists and they are not at all interested in thinking about facts or debating anything. They just want to drink the Kool-Aid and get high on Obama. They just want their religious Obama beliefs reinforced, just like any jihadi or borne again Christian.
Yes, the right wingers are the same, except they don’t have Obama. They have Jesus. Same thing. To quote Depeche Mode, for the liberal atheist world, Obama is their “Personal Jesus.”
By the way, I’m not saying Romney would do better, but that’s sort of beside the point. Probably, Romney would not really fix the entitlement programs, cut defense spending, or clean up Wall Street, either. Which is why I was mostly ambivalent about the election. But now seeing that we have no plan whatsoever for the stuff that matters (to me at least), it’s hard not to be hugely disappointed.
Yeah, it is dissapointing if you look at that facts of it all. But you need to get with Jesus/Allah/Obama, Bromion.
How disappointing is any religion if you stop and look at the overwhelming facts that it can’t really do much for you, that the saviour is dead, or in Obama’s case poltiically dead due to a divided house/senate. It’s depressing.
Nope, instead you just tell yourself, “Obama, Forward!” You go your grave believing in this sort of propoganda the way that Bolsheviks did 80 years during the Soviet Union.
And no, I’m not picking on Obama. He’s done a fine job in many respects. I’m just trying to explain the irrational euphoria that people have for him.
Well, I think Obama has done a great job in decreasing active troop levels overseas and leaving while maintaining some air of stability. His management of the war in Libya ($2 billion in munition and no boots on the ground to secure some political involvement while letting FR and UK fly most of the sorties) was A+ in my book as well. Yes Benghazi happened, but sometimes bad crap happens over there and lets not sling mud.
I don’t think it’s fair to hold the president responsible for not enacting financial legislation as he’s the head of the executive branch with relatively low pull over the legislative branch, I think you need to judge them separately for that.
I don’t believe Romney campaigned for any significant financial legislature or overhaul and I dont’ really see any evidence that he could have completed it, even had that been the case. (I didn’t follow elections closely, so you can correct me if I’m off on this).
Regarding entitlement programs, I agree with you, there is some major, hard hitting reform required there. Unfortunately, I don’t see either candidate really making an effort to do this. Half of Romney’s smear ads against Obama criticized him for cutting some medicare payouts. I was very confused by those ads, I thought Romney was for cutting these programs (which was one of the platforms I would have agreed with him on). Lastly, I don’t think his plan to increase military spending is in line with his plan to decrease the deficit given the roll that plays in government spending.
Ok, I just wrote a big response, cause I was wondering that. Sounds like we’re on the same page then. I mean, I don’t necessarily think Obama did a great job, and I definitely didn’t care enough to vote. I’m just confused by how these people are saying he did so bad relative to other candidates, as I don’t honestly see that great of a difference.
I mostly agree with you BlackSwan, but those are the issues of the day, and any President in office should have focused on those. Coulda / woulda / shoulda, but it didn’t happen. Instead we got an idealistic platform focusing mostly on side issues. Since I have still yet to hear any viable plan out of the President, I can only assume that it will be more of the same (social engineering), but hopefully I’m wrong about that.
this is pretty spot on. their blind love for obama is equaled only by their blind hatred for repubilcans. but the same was true for republican bush ball washers. none of them could admit that he was one of the worst presidents we’ve ever had, some still to this day.
the elites in each party love this dynamic because it keeps individuals from seeing just what both parties are doing, which is putting this country on a course for long term decline. neither party has any interest in policies that would actually bring about widespread prosperity, because that would mean reducing their control over the economy and lives of individuals and removing the protection from competition that their corporate backers enjoy. this won’t change until enough people wake up and realize who and what is to blame for the path we’re on.
I think you are a little too optimistic. Entitlements are pretty much impossible to remove unless the chief executive has vast powers. That being said, I think now that the overhang of re-election is gone, I think Obama has the freedom to be much more aggressive in carving out his agenda.
I voted for Romney, although was not a huge fan. More than anything I voted against Obama for the following reasons:
I didnt’ want to own 1/3 of General Motors
He promised to cut the deficit in half by now, instead he doubled it.
I don’t want 5 SC Justices appointed by Obama.
Instead of focusing on the economy in his first 2 years, when Dems had both houses of Congress, he instead pushed through Obamacare which results in a significant new tax on me (Chief Justice Robert’s words, not mine) and does nothing to address underlying costs. My mother’s doctor has also informed her that he will not be able to perform her hip replacement next year unless Obamacare is repealed because he will no longer accept Medicare.
He promised to allow prescription drug imports - > still illegal.
He promised to eliminate income taxes for seniors earning less than $50K per year - > they’re still paying.
Actually, if you look at the growth of private sector jobs and the growth of employment in general, or the rate of unemployment decline, it actually looks like a reasonable recovery. Yes, it feels anaemic, because it’s not pumped up by all that consumer debt from people taking equity out of their houses like we had after the 2002 recession, or a once-in-a-lifetime technological breakthrough, like the internet, but it’s the new normal, and it’s full of global structural changes that the President doesn’t have full control over.
Yes, debt is a problem, and one has to deal with the debt when times are good (as we did during the Clinton years). The right never thinks that the debt is a problem if tax increases (even tiny ones) are part of the solution. “I don’t like the debt, let’s take away someone else’s entitlements, with an exemption for me” seems to be their preferred solution.
But the debt problem is real. And I fear it will eat us eventually. This is why structural adjustment is key, because the only long-term way to pay down debt without social chaos is to grow. I don’t know all the things that have to happen for tis growth to take place, but I do know that austerity isn’t going to do it, and it is actualy going to make the debt/GDP problem worse, not better, because the numerator will stay the same or grow slightly, while the denominator contracts. And it will be levered by a factor of (1 / (1- (tax revenue)/(GDP) ), so the lower the tax rate the bigger the leverage. And there will be chaos in the streets.
As for jubulation, a lot of the jubulation I see is actually about the idea that we aren’t going back in time on the social agenda (marriage equality, abortion, creationism, etc.). Much of the celebration (and in California, I imagine it would be greater) is about marriage equality, which is something I don’t think is a the key issue in tough times like these, but I still support it.
Sadly, I think you are 100% correct. The two parties, and the candidates in them, are more similar than not. Most voters it seems choose based on tangential social issues (religion, abortion, etc.) and lack any understanding of how to run a country. I definitely don’t have all the answers, but I’m convinced that both parties are pretty much the same, and neither of them really care about the people in broad terms. The media obscures this reality by focusing on ultra-devisive talking points, and the public isn’t smart enough to look past the charade (or maybe its just the people I have on facebook).
I have thought about this for a long time and I’m not sure what to do to step off the train. Basically, either accept it and try to work around it (make as much money as possible to buffer yourself from the madness), or leave the country.