WRT the videos posted, which I still haven’t seen, I’ve gone to a bunch of Princeton basketball games and watched them embarrass teams that were far taller and more athletic because of their teamwork, skill and knowledge. I’ve also watched them play against the Iikes of Duke, UNC, and Kentucky and look like they just got off the high school playground.
I love how you keep changing your argument, you started with " NFL players would be dominant at soccer if the grew up in a soccer environment", then you change it to " no…I meant the US could produce great soccer players if it was popular here", and now you’re back to " NFL players would dominate soccer".
I repeat, you can take all of the freakish athletes that the NFL produces, and put them in a soccer program, however, they will not produce a dominant soccer team. These athletes are optimized for the NFL, which prizes size and and short explosive bursts of power over all other athletic attributes.
What you need to grasp is that soccer has certain attributes and skills, and until you can prove that these NFL players possess them at an extremely high level, your argument is pretty weak. You don’t know how high the technical skill level is at the very top levels, and a tubby, short, playmaker who is incredible at retaining and controlling possession is far more valuable than a 6’3" super athlete with a 4.2 40 time.
And your bias towards “taller, faster, stronger” is pretty amusing. If you poll an all time top 10 soccer list of the best players to ever play the game, most players will be shorter than 6ft tall (less than 5’9" for many), won’t have 4.3 40 times, and are fairly weak by NFL standards.
This thread should be renamed Yanks vs Rest of the World. 1st penis modification now “soccer”
I know it’s a hypothetical discussion but saying that the US would dominate football if they wanted to is a moot point. US culture is just isn’t condusive to creating an environment where they could dominate football.
“sport” in the US = power, physical prowess, speed but being the the biggest tallest finest speciment of a man can actually be an impediment when playing football. Messi wouldn’t have the same control, change of pace, delicate skills if he was 6 ft. or totally stacked. only maybe goalkeepers and centre halves need to be a certain height and width.
are all counterbacks 6ft 5 african americans built like brick shithouses?
and who brought sergio busquets into this? he’s hardly a name to drop when trying to argue about world class skillfull players.
Some people are just great at anything they touch. If Bo Jackson or Dave Winfield were introduced to soccer, they would excel.
Since we’re on soccer.
How the F does Shinji Kagawa not start for ManU? They can find a spot for Wellbeck and Valencia, but not Kagawa?
what you tripping on?
“if i could be reborn as a player it would be busquets”-del bosque
“the first time i saw him,i could not believe my eyes…i did not think the world would produce another like him”-pep guardiola.
“he’s seen me before i realize i’m free”-xavi
He doesn’t fit into their current shape. i agree that he looks like a top class player though.
valencia provides width and balance to the team but he’ll never be better than an average player. he wouldn’t make it in any other top league.
i think its funny that everyone is bigging up welbeck after scoring 2 agains swansea. the english press probably just want to believe that they have a decent forward.
i agreed he’s a good player but he isn’t even in the same league as xavi, iniesta, schweinsteiger, xabi alonso, zizou et al
^
pointless.
if you had cesc in your team you’d want busquets.
if you had mascherano you’d want xavi.
busquets is world class
yeah, that’s football 101. you need a balanced midfield, players compliment each other etc.
my point is that it was bizarre to drop busquets and gundogan into the discussion.
busquets is a good player but he’s not quite world class
he’s the best defensive mid in the past decade.
some of the greatest the game has ever seen trip over to compliment him.
he is most def world class
xabi alonso, pirlo and even fabregas when he played deeper at arsenal are all better in the position. busquets doesn’t offer nearly as much as those 3 going forward and the number of goals barcelona concede is testament to his mediocrity as a defensive midfielder (as well as their refusal to replace puyol).
roy keane, patrick viera, de rossi, even makelele with his 10 yard passing range were better defensively.
in my opinion xabi alonso is the best holding midfielder currently playing.
the one area that busquests is world class is diving and rolling about like he’s been shot. he stands out for this even in la liga.
strong opinion but i disagree.
all players you mention are different.
pirlo needs runners around him. he can control a game if he has that.
fabregas and busquets are in the same team,if he’s better why’s he on the bench under 3 managers?
busquets starts ahead of xabi for spain under del bosque.that’s fking DEL BOSQUE.you think he doesn’t know?
the other 4 are all action,power and grit…the type of players that the americans would be fond of.
none of the players you mention above can read the angles like busquets.busquets wins the ball and lay’s it off in ONE TOUCH.
his passing is surprisingly penetrative because he’s always playing it in space.he know’s when to dive to break up play,when to stay on his feet (yes,he has).
his anticipation is far above all players mentioned.it’s why he’s a starter in arguably one of the best teams the world’s seen
Busquets is one of those players that doesn’t look very impressive in isolation, he’s skinny, he gets beat one on one etc.
But when it comes to ball retention and passing, there’s no one quite like him. Just look at his little triangles with Iniesta and Xavi. Alonso couldn’t do that, he is good at passing, but not the tons of little short passes that Busquets can do. I’d love to see him move higher up and play a “Paul Scholes” type role.
Gundogan is world class…a holding midfielder with a great passing range and creativity…much like Alonso really.
well this thread certainly got off topic
I have no idea who would dominate what on whatever scenario.
But, for sure, soccer is not about strength or speed.
The best players in history were not particularly fast or strong. Most of the best players I’ve seen (Zidane, Romario, Messi, Ronaldinho) are mostly short guys who are not very fast or strong. Once they go to a top team, they get as fast and strong as they can (it helps somewhat), but that’s not a crucial factor. Ronaldo (the Brazilian one) played a world cup while overweight and then was the best player in the country for a couple years while been even more overweight. Romario wouldn’t even attend practice sessions and to this day says he’s never been an athlete.
The best soccer players would never even try something like the NFL. They would be too short and slow. They are good at soccer because they have the right set of skills (talent).
If US humans are anything like the rest of the world, most of the prospect top US players would also not be extremely fast or strong – they would be extremely talented for soccer/coordination. It is possible that the best US talent ever for soccer is actually Donovan And Donovan would not make the B team anywhere. Freddy Adu was supposed to be the greatest American soccer player ever and he grew up to be benched at Brazil’s second division.
Neymar may be the best Brazilian today and he looks like a random high school kid. Not tall, not strong, not that fast, but has soccer skills and may become a pretty great player.
The fastest teams in the World Cup are usually the worst ones. Spain is pretty slow (physically - the ball changes place very fast) and they have been the best team for quite some time.
Maybe the super-incredible-US-machine could produce great players – maybe even produce a top competitive team, but that wouldn’t have much to do with strength and speed.
I do believe the US athletic machine is fantasic yadda yadda and you deserve the Olympic medals and what not.
Yet, one reason for some of the Olympic Medals may be that most of the world doesn’t care at all for 95% or more of olympic sports.
I grew up as an average brazilian and I can assure you that nobody at my school or maybe even the entire neighborhood has ever practiced an hour of gymnastics, tennis, boxing, badmington, archery, throwing darts, I don’t even know what else they got there. Maybe some random kid was genetically gifted to be the best badmington dude on earth, but we were all too busy playing soccer.
So your “NFL athletes are so awesome” argument goes both ways. One may even argue that, if other countries gave a little care about american football, maybe US wouldn’t be the top force in it. Who knows? Jamaicans seem faster and eastern european guys seem stronger than NFL players.
I disagree about your point about Ronaldo, at his pre injury peak, he had everything - super athlete combined with excellent technical skills, pretty much the “Megatron” of strikers if you will. But even when he was overweight, he still had the technical talent to be a potent goalscorer.
It’s interesting though, Brazil over the past 15 years has tried to do exactly what higgmond is saying. Let’s staff the teams with lots of superfast (black) athletes, and we’ll start pwning the Europeans. It’s made them strong in certain areas like wingbacks and central defenders, but they are hardly the globally dominant team you would imagine.