I’m not a fan of Trump, but the media has really done a disservice to the general public in this instance as well as many, many others. It’s a shame that you really have to see it live in order to believe. Otherwise, it is subject to selective editing to the point of completely changing what was actually said.
Thats not what he said at all. he said he was undecided which is a perfectly valid opinion to have.
I thought his post was very insightful and obviously even though it is only his experience it is nice to know it is seemingly handled well and they didnt seem pushy about any options.
Any response to bchad? Why is there no rhetoric or policy promoting care for babies or the poor families having them? Or are you pro life only for the fetus?
This is a good question and one as someone who is pro choice I am unsure of personally. I am comfortable with the current accepted definition of “viable” which is around 24 weeks typically.
Obviously the main points each side has is repubs say life begins at conception and want to protect it, saying dems are killing a life. Dems say repubs dont give a crap about the life once its born so people should have the option to terminate when it isn’t very developed. bchad’s its complicated is about the best answer we will get.
Sounds like you are from a wealthy family. Definitely not judging, but why didn’t you turn to family and then private providers for support rather than a subsidized clinic? Wasn’t an option? Not supportive?
Viable will change with technology. I guess constitutional rights will be a moving target. Like I said, I personally believe in a year trial period, but life begins the same way it ends I would think. That’s all about brain activity.
I dont think thats a fair way to put it for BS at all. I do think if he were to completely switch to Pro-Life it would make him somewhat of a hypocrite but he has the right to make the call on his views. Having a view that you are undecided does not constitute picking a side. It may seem that way in this case because taking the Pro-Life side would involve creating legislation and such, whereas to be Pro-life you would just be keeping status quo
That’s fair. At one point in my life, maybe 15 years ago I also decided not to shoot myself and put down the gun in my hand. That doesn’t mean I would want someone else to have the same choice having been through it. A friend of mine in high school, did shoot himself on prom night in his parents’ car. I’m not glad he had the same choice I had, regardless of my outcome.
There’s no need to be a snide dumbass. I got Plantir on one hand pretending he’s the arbiter of who believes what saying I’m pro-choice and I’ve got you basically saying I’m pro-life. Funny. I’m apparently one of the few people here with any actual experience based on the comments. Which is typical when you’re talking to a collection of douchebags.
What really happened is I gave a pretty factual and unbiased depiction of MY expererience (and admitted as much) and gave my reflections on how that process has impacted my thoughts while basically saying it left me seeing both sides. I think that now making the wrong choice not to have the kid would have been damaging to me, but also added this little nugget which you chose to overlook in your rush to pass judgement:
“We definitely made the right choice and it has taken me from pro-choice to undecided. For us, going through the process made things feel like we were back in control and it was our choice to have the baby. For some people, maybe a 14 year old girl or something, or a lady with 11 kids in the ghetto, I could see the best choice being different, So I’M NOT READY TO GO PRO-LIFE EITHER.”
The level of simplistic stupidity on this forum never ceases to astound me.
Actually BS, you had no legal choice in the matter. There was no we according to the law. It was her. I’m sure you don’t disagree and the predicament crossed your mind?
No, it literally means I haven’t made up my mind yet. I see situations where having the choice is for the best and situations where it causes people to make the wrong decision under pressure for themselves. So what I’m literally saying is I don’t know what the correct answer is.
Because some situations should have an abortion does not imply you think the choice should be openly available to everyone or that that is in the best interest for society. I’m not saying that is my view, but you’re definitely trying to twist a view into pro-choice when my view really is, “I don’t know.”
Similarly, some people may be undecided on gun control. That does not make them pro-guns unless you are only capable of simplistic reasoning.
Yes, I was aware of this. At the time I was more in favor of the abortion and she was more against it. I had to be extremely careful not to push her around. I can be persuasive and she was vulnerable, it’s a situation that is very abusable so you have to tread with a lot of caution. Ultimately, I could tell that there was just no way the decision to have an abortion was right for her. I did tell her to contemplate that the odds were stacked against us and ensure that if she had this baby she would be okay with being a single Mom because that was a very real possibility for people in our situation. But ultimately we both pulled together and so far so good (getting married in September). It has been very trying though for sure. It marked a bit of a turning point in my life where I for the first time in awhile began to drop decades of cynical and narcisistic behavior and began to make moralistic decisions after losing my idealism a long time before. So it has been a positive process all in all.
Also, we were sort of hunkered down (we live far away from our parents) trying to work through things together and process everything while also pretty broke. To be honest though, I didn’t really understand that there were other clinics available or how anything worked. I’d maybe held a baby once in my life max.
So, if I understand correctly, BS is saying that he’s not sure that he should have been allowed the opportunity to schedule an abortion. The state should have told them that the only option is to carry to term, which happens to be the choice he made.
Interestingly, the Catholic Church used to think that fetuses gained a soul at around 14 weeks, and that abortion processes before that point were not prohibited under church law (though I’m not sure exactly what was all that possible at the time).
My own take is that what’s wrong with killing is the extermination of a being’s self awareness of their individuality and [self awareness of their] potential for a future. Before that point, it’s just a bunch of cells. Just because you have sperm or eggs doesn’t mean you are obliged to merge them into new human beings and the use of contraceptive devices isn’t murder because you are robbing potential. Without self awareness, there isn’t a big case for continuity. If I chop off my arm, my arm doesn’t suddenly have rights to exist separate of me. It’s only the part that is self aware that can feel the desire to live.
Now it is hard to say at what point a fetus becomes self aware, but what is clear is that it is probably not at conception, but likely sometime before birth. So abortions at early stages seem reasonable under a broader set of circumstances than late-term abortions, which in my mind are only justified if the mother’s life is somehow endangered by birth (and I wonder how many cases are really like that with modern medicine). I don’t think the fact that an abortion conducted half an hour before birth seems cruel and murderous therefore means that an abortion at week 10 is therefore also murder.
No one is saying that abortion is a good or fun thing, but if done early on, it may well be preferable to many of the alternatives. People say, what about adoption, but many many babies find themselves waiting years to be adopted, even if they are ever adopted, and at least some of those foster parents are there simply collecting checks that come along with them.