Trump Taxes

Water Cooler
#21

Disclose to whom? The general public? Who doesn’t understand how to interpret their own 1040?

And they’re supposed to be able to make sense of Donald Trunp’s tax return? And his 100+ pass-through entities? And the associated NOL’s and PAL’s? And all his C-corps that sounds NOT appear anywhere on his return?

Even if we did have his full tax return, we wouldn’t know what particular transactions went in there. EG - if he pays $100k to a lawyer who does both criminal defense AND transaction advisory, how much of that $100k is personal and how much is business? The only way to know is by getting REAL granular and analyzing every line item on every return. (That’s why the IRS conducts audits.)

So while I agree in principle that the POTUS should be subject to oversight, your suggestion is so void of details that it is basically useless.

#22

Sounds like Trump’s healthcare proposal.

#23

yes disclose to general public. there will be enough people who will understand and sum it up.

#24

Green do you think the prior reporting of reporting the value of buildings was more clear tax fraud?

#25

Q for Greenman: why the 750? i mean there’s millions of dollars in income, revenue and losses all over the place but he lands on 750 two years in a row? Is that some sort of minimum?

#26

Can’t read the article, so I don’t know.
I suspect that it has to do with under-reporting the value of the real estate, which should have been reported on a 706 (estate tax return). If that’s the case, then the IRS has four years to review it and challenge it. If they didn’t, or if they didn’t find that anything was under-reported, then it stands as reported.

#27

poor guy cant release anything until the audit is over

#28

So while I agree in principle that the POTUS should be subject to oversight, your suggestion is so void of details that it is basically useless.<<

Shrug. I disagree.

I think presidents (and perhaps members of Congress, but that’s another layer to discuss) should be required not just to disclose their full financial picture, but while serving as president, divest all business interests and individual securities. Primary holdings might be a portfolio of S&P index / bond funds, maybe a house with a mortgage, etc. with management in a blind trust. A president’s financial picture should be very clear and, furthermore, present no conflict of interest.

If your response is that under such circumstances a person like Donald Trump wouldn’t want to be president, well, that’s the point.

#29

Didn’t some filthy rich once say that ”only little people pay taxes”. DJT knows what’s up, taxes are for the birds!

#30

No, there is no “minimum” tax.

I suspect (based on zero evidence whatsoever) that he has zero taxable income, but he got some credit a few years ago that has to be repaid.

(edit - there may be some type of state income tax that has a $750 minimum. Like a franchise tax for an LLC or something. I live in Texas, where we have no state income tax. God bless Texas.)

That’s about the only plausible theory. To be honest, to owe the exact same amount of tax for two years in a row is an incredible coincidence–especially for a person who is taking in millions of revenue.

A more plausible theory is that the accountant went to the Enron School of Culinary Accounting. (Where they teach you to cook the books.)

#31

Well, we can have different opinions. While I partially agree with you in principle, I think that doing what you’re saying is particularly draconian, especially for somebody with significant business assets.

And yes–that might dissuade someone like DJT from running for office. But it might not. People like him want three things: 1.) money, 2.) power, and 3.) sex. He already has #1. Now he just needs #2.

(And once you have #1 or #2, #3 is easy to get.)

#32

One last thing about the article itself: I think it was written by Edupristine.

“He paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years—largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.”

You’re telling me that if you have a net loss on your tax return, then you have no taxable income? And therefore owe no tax? Tell me more, Confucious!!!

#33

Greenie why can’t I just hire you and we deduct all my vacations as business expenses. Team building and what not

1 Like
#34

Some people do! I mean, they have a Family LP that owns all their family “interests”. (Sometimes that “interest” is nothing more than a taxable brokerage account invested in index funds. But nonetheless…)

Usually, the two parent are the majority partners and the kids/grandkids are the limited partners. But you have to have a partner meeting every year, so they allocate funds to fly everybody to the shareholders meeting. Sometimes it is in Vegas, sometimes Orlando, etc.

Since it is a shareholder meeting, the travel, hotel, and meals are deductible. The “entertainment” may not be (depending on the accountant).

And if the patriarch makes too much money, he can always “hire” his kids and grandkids as “consultants” and pay them a “consulting fee”. (Like Ivanka.)

Or, you can purchase a large estate and use it as a “family retreat” that serves as headquarters for all the family LP “operations”. Since it’s largely being used as an office, you can depreciate it and deduct the operating expenses. And since you have to get there somehow, the private jet that ferries you to/from the office is also deductible. (And the luxury cars.)

Plus, when G1 dies and gets ready to pass the wealth on to G2, you can use valuation discounts to reduce the amount of death taxes that you owe. That is—what you haven’t already moved out of your estate using advanced techniques.

All of this may sound unfair and grotesque and “Trumpish” to you—but this is actually how the super-ultra-wealthy handle their affairs. And the IRS allows it. So whether you (or the op-ed writers at the NYT) like it or not—it is perfectly legal, perfectly legitimate, and perfectly normal.

#35

Oh I’m not hating. I’m trying to figure out how to do the same thing. I’m starting to get more into real estate investing because I want to be like our greatest president too. Got a new business as well. I’m taking note!

#36

Greenie you nincompoop. You really think the ■■■■■■■ president should be in charge of enforcing tax laws and simultaneously not pay them? G what a role model.

#republicansforbiden

You’re defending this mother-■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■■

You’re part of the problem. I’m ready to fight any of you tax evading pussies.

#37

The key to getting rich is minimizing your taxes!

#38

I’m guessing you wrote this with the assistance of some liquid courage?

#39

I wrote this in the MAGA thread, in response to “Holy smokes–the POTUS has $400m in debt coming due in the next four years?” I thought it belonged here too.

No offense…but I think you guys know almost nothing about personal finance and taxes. (Note - nothing I say here should be construed as a defense for Donald Trump’s continued presidency, re-election, or ability to run the country.)

DJT has assets worth almost $4 billion. If he has $400m in maturing debt–that’s nothing. That’s 10% of his capital structure. Sure–he has to come up with some way to pay it back–but if he can borrow the money (which I’m quite sure he can)–problem solved!!! And if he can’t–then he just has to generate some operating capital in the next four years.

“But he can’t generate any operating capital!!! He’s broke and all his properties are losing money!!!” No, they’re not. There’s a difference between an accounting profit , an operating profit , an economic profit , and a tax profit .

Think of it this way–if DJT makes $50m on a reality TV show, and he has $20m in “operating profit” (which includes revenues and operating expenses, but excludes taxes and depreciation) from a hotel/golf course/resort, then you might think he has $70m in taxable income. But you’d be wrong.

He will take that $70m and invest it back into his resort. And that $70m becomes a deduction, which may be able to be expensed immediately under the IRS capitalization rules. (Anything with less than a 15-year life is immediately expensed. Anything with more than that has to be capitalized and depreciated.) The “accounting profit” is depreciating the $70m over 30 years, but the IRS allows most of it to be immediately expensed. So the “taxable income” is lower than the “accounting” income is.

Moreover, since he just contributed $70m back into the resort, he can probably go out and borrow an additional $70m–which can also be capitalized and depreciated. Now–he has another $70m to depreciate. Now he has $70m in income and $140m in expenses, which generates a $70m loss, which can be carried forward for 20 years.

Most people look at this and say, “OH MY GOD!!! THE PRESIDENT LOST $70 MILLION IN A SINGLE YEAR? AND HE’S RUNNING OUR COUNTRY??? OH MY GOD!!!” What they don’t realize is that even though he has zero taxable income, his net worth increased by $100m ($70m in “income” that was reinvested and deducted and $30m of unrealized capital gain–net of the accumulated debt)–and the IRS does not tax net worth. (At least not yet.) The IRS taxes taxable income, of which he has zero. (And since he can carry that loss forward for 20 years, he will have zero taxable income for a long time.)

If you rinse and repeat this for 30-40 years, you accumulate a lot of money. Granted, you also accumulate debt, but the debt is only a fraction of the assets. The assets keep increasing in value to the tune of 15-20% per year, and the interest expense is 5-6%. He will keep doing this for ever and ever and ever. And once he’s dead and gone, his kids will pick up the torch after him and continue to run his empire, the way he picked up his dad’s torch and ran with it.

Again–maybe this is morally repugnant because it perpetuates dynastic wealth while keeping the poor in the poor house. I’m not here to opine on morality. I just state the facts–which is that Donald Trump is doing just fine.

#40

his net worth didnt compound like that though at a 20 percent rate. i think he started at 400m in 1990. It’s literally an 8 percent cagr. that’s not even mentioning the 400m he earned via apprentice and licensing delas.


also they have him pegged at 3.6b in assets. net of debt. he is somewhere in the 2.5b range of net worth. the brings the cagr down to 6.2%!

For comparison SPY, total return is 10.3% CAGR or a nw of 7.5b. trump does claim to be worth between 6b to 12b though. but most estimates peg him around 3b. which is no bueno!

as for liquidity. the article states that he is liquidating investments. so he is definitely not doing well!