Unions essentially promote employee collusion which drives up labor costs and, indirectly, consumer prices. Why should corporations be prohibited from colluding to manipulate prices if employees are allowed to do the same with wages? They both have the same effect on consumers…higher prices. People should get paid what the market says they are worth and not a penny more.
long past due.
The five day work week… Children in schools instead of factories… Employers liable for knowingly endangering employee safety… All courtesy of the AFL-CIO.
I’m not much of a union fan myself and I am absolutely not a supporter of the UAW but unions provide a balance in the otherwise unequal power relationships between employers and employees. Unions have been the driving force for all kinds of legislation that most people view as great successes and stopped all kinds of exploitation. Even a little bit of labor history makes it pretty clear that making unions illegal would be a dumbass thing to do. Also, manipulating prices and collectively bargaining for labor costs are just wildly different which is why one is illegal and the other is supported by virtually every significant politician in the US. Honestly, if you think they are the same you ought to just think about it a little more.
I don’t think they should be illegal, but in a perfect world we’d have no need for them. A well managed business shouldn’t have a need for a union. Case in point - Japanese vs. US automakers. Bottom line: the US government should NOT be bailing out GM or F. They did it with Chrysler in the early 80’s and although that worked out, I don’t agree with the principles of the decision.
I have thought about this. Should someone who most likely did not graduate highschool (i’m not saying this is everyone doing physical labor in the auto industry) deserve to make $52/hour + overtime. Their wages are inflated as are many others that work in areas that are unionized. Unions make people lazy. People join unions because they are easily replacable. Those of us that are not part of a union are the ones that pay in the long run. My lazy-ars junior high school global studies professor that had no idea what he was doing and didnt come to class half the time retired on my dime. Children in school has nothing to do with unions and if you are asked to work a seven day week and you only want to work five, get another job.
They don’t. Unions get abusive too and the wage rate isn’t the thing that pisses me off the most - it’s the “reserve worker’s pool” that keeps people sitting at home paid when the plant doesn’t need them in case it might sometime. Your reaction to that shouldn’t be to suggest that unions be made illegal.
It is odd to see finance people here sound like a bunch of Marxists. The unions did play a certain role in the beginning of the 20th century. That was then. Now, I see way too many negatives associated with them. I do agree with aic. I know a dude at a GM plant, who never went to a college and all he does is puts stickers inside the GM cars during his shift. The guy makes more than $85K a year. That’s pretty screwed up, if you ask me. No wonder all manufacturing jobs are going to Mexico and China.
Have you ever studied history highpark? you can argue that unions have too much power (which they do), but it’s nonsensical to ban them. What about freedom of association? If people here are marxists, I think that makes you a fascist.
Good - that raised the level of the dialogue. An ad hominem attack that those who do not favor making unions illegal sound like a bunch of Marxists. Gosh, I remember Ronald Reagan lobbying for the establishment of trade unions behind the Iron Curtain. If Ronald Reagan is a Marxist, then so am I.
christmaths, You sound like you have been using too much crystal meth and that affected your brain cells, not that you had any to begin with. JoeyDVivre, Didn’t know that fact about the Gipper. He (Ronnie) was a righteous dude.
All together now: Then raise the scarlet standard high, Within its shade we’ll live and die, Though cowards flinch and traitors sneer, We’ll keep the red flag flying here! edit: christmaths? just call me jesus.
Jesus was no commie…
Uh, well, he kinda was.
I agree that uneducated autoworkers who are unionized have a pretty sweet deal, and that it’s a bummer that hummers are so expensive because of it, but I look at life for ordinary people in countires where unions are illegal, and I don’t want to see that where I live. One of the issues in the workplace today is that many companies have found ways around having to deal with unions, and it is making most of the middle class very insecure.
I live about 45 min north of Detroit. My father was in a union for his entire 40+ year career. I was raised singing the praises of the union. The first time I ever heard anyone say anything at all bad about a union was when I started taking finance/econ classes in college. It sounded like heresy to me. Fast forward six years and I can’t stand the things. My father has essentially washed his hands of them as well. They were useful and needed back in the day. Now they are corrupt and clog up business. My father paid $50/pay period in union dues. $100 a month went to that bloody union that hasn’t done a damn thing to help his former industry, save the free ham he gets every Christmas, since the 80’s.
bchadwick Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I agree that uneducated autoworkers who are > unionized have a pretty sweet deal, and that it’s > a bummer that hummers are so expensive because of > it, I don’t see the connection between unions and the cost of hummers. Last I checked, hummer providers weren’t unionized.
The logical conclusion is that if Unions force up wages beyond equilibrium, then non-unionised makers with lower costs clean up, making the unionised company go bust, and takes away all the power of the union. Which is what is happening.
When I see line worker salaries approaching and in some cases higher than my income, I get really depressed…
highparkcfa Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > JoeyDVivre, > Didn’t know that fact about the Gipper. He > (Ronnie) was a righteous dude. BTW - The Gipper started his political career as the president of the Screen Actor’s Guild (SAG) which is surely a trade union. Edit: And XSellSide - Brad Pitt is almost certainly a card-carrying member of SAG and he makes lots more than you do.