Hi all, I got a somewhat off topic question. I have joined my organisation around a year ago. We are a big finanical services player with an investment management arm. I am going through a talent pipeline here at the organisation, which includes stints at a couple of teams. I am now struggling of what to work in next. We have limited “Alternatives” offering. There is a possibility for me to join a team runs Long/Short equity and is based in Sao Paolo or a Private Equity player in Amsterdam, the Netherlands. Now, especially given what is going on in the markets, having the chance to join either or is a big opportunity. I however dont know what to do. I don’t know what to base my decision on! I think I am more suitable for PE as quant is not my strenght and I believe that is more needed on a HF. Then there is the chance to go to Brasil. Next I have had a intern at a PE fund. Tiny operation in a frontier market. I have worked on Emerging Market Debt. Now I could work on Emerging Market Equity in a Hedge Fund. Points to me towards running an Emerging Market Hedge Fund one day… I actually believe that it is impossible for anyone other then me to get to the final decision. What I am however asking for is advice in terms of what to base my decision on. What parameters have you guys applied when evaluating offers? What is your time horizon by such decisions? What do you focus on? Anything! Please! Thanks
Yes I know the world is coming to an end but I’d still appreciate someones comment!
It sounds like a rich man’s problem. few folks have the ability to make that choice. It sounds lke you are early in your career, so do not focus too much on offers and employement terms. Work for the best people you can, trying to get the best experience you can. Do not get too worked up at which path you take now, as it sounds like you can try stints in each area.
Chrisss Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hi all, > > I got a somewhat off topic question. I have joined > my organisation around a year ago. We are a big > finanical services player with an investment > management arm. I am going through a talent > pipeline here at the organisation, which includes > stints at a couple of teams. > > I am now struggling of what to work in next. We > have limited “Alternatives” offering. There is a > possibility for me to join a team runs Long/Short > equity and is based in Sao Paolo or a Private > Equity player in Amsterdam, the Netherlands. Now, > especially given what is going on in the markets, > having the chance to join either or is a big > opportunity. I however dont know what to do. > > I don’t know what to base my decision on! I think > I am more suitable for PE as quant is not my > strenght and I believe that is more needed on a > HF. Then there is the chance to go to Brasil. Next > I have had a intern at a PE fund. Tiny operation > in a frontier market. I have worked on Emerging > Market Debt. Now I could work on Emerging Market > Equity in a Hedge Fund. Points to me towards > running an Emerging Market Hedge Fund one day… > > I actually believe that it is impossible for > anyone other then me to get to the final decision. > What I am however asking for is advice in terms of > what to base my decision on. What parameters have > you guys applied when evaluating offers? What is > your time horizon by such decisions? What do you > focus on? > > Anything! Please! > > Thanks I would say PE but since there are so many gramatical errors in your initial posting, I would recommend you opt for a position that involves minimal writing.
Big question this comes down to is do you want to be the type of guy who leaves at 4:30 AM or PM? In the long run, money is about equal on average…
@Gecco: Thnx. Also my line of thought. @IronMan: Maybe you have the time to polish your postings! Made me laugh anyways. @ahahah: I have a passion for my job so in that sense it doesn’t matter. FYI…at the moment my tendency points to PE, which in acutal fact is a PE approach to Quoted Equity.
Chrisss Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > @IronMan: Maybe you have the time to polish your > postings! Made me laugh anyways. You could have asked IronMan to check for spelling errors before posting.
Chrisss, These are clearly exciting times for you - just a couple of points/questions from me. - are languages an issue/consideration for you? Are you a portuguese/dutch speaker? Do you want to be? - I met with a Brazilian hedge fund (one of the largest) a few months back and they were in the midst of a fundraising drive for their illiquid strategies division (essentially PE) - is this something you could discuss with your HF guys in Sao Paolo? (what plans does the firm you have an offer with have in this department?) - How did you get the Brazilian connection? As has already been said, your career path is likely to be long and winding, so choose the opp that provides the most exposure, learnings and the best exit opportunities (i include going out and doing the samba every friday in sao paolo as an exit opportunity!) Good Luck JT
@JT: I asked a former manager of mine and he wrote…PS: If you want to go sun-tanning in Brazil, go on vacation! He knows me quite well! The only continent I have not lived on is South America. I speak Dutch but hide it. I prefer English - yes IronMan I do! To sum up, language has never been a concern but I was warned by people that I need Portugese in Brazil. One more reason for the Friday Samba sessions. My very longterm exist strategy is having my own investment house…one day… On the connection…I have opportunistically asked someone in my office who gave me the details of the CEO in Brazil…then I shot him an email. Lucky me I am already having a job and not applying right now! Makes more fun to see everything crumble from the inside! Lastly, I dont think I am in a position at the moment to introduce the Brazilian guys to anyone. Also by the sound of it your write up doesn’t seem to match what they looking for. So I guess Amsterdam it is…anyone any final thoughts???
When I left equity research to move into private equity/leveraged buyouts, I documented a variety of aspects of my decision to move to private equity on the following thread: http://www.analystforum.com/phorums/read.php?1,657261,658703#msg-658703 The post above explains my rationale for wanting to move into private equity rather than a hedge fund. I might provide an updated opinion later when I have more time, but please read the post above (as well as the entire thread) if you’re interested in learning about why I personally decided on PE. There are others who posted on that thread that also had interesting opinions regarding hedge fund and private eqiuty careers. The key driver for my decision to move to private equity was the nature of the work and the style of investing we did. I’ll quote a couple paragraphs that I had written on 2/8/08: "basically, my rationale for wanting to get into PE encompasses a number of points you mentioned. while it’s true that it would have been a more natural transition for me to move to asset management/hedge fund roles, i just found that i wasn’t as interested in the day-to-day volatility of the stock markets and taking minority positions in companies as i was with control investing, working on transactions, having access to non-public material information, which, once you’ve seen this, really turns a business on its head and gives you exposure to a whole world of information you never thought existed about a business – in fact, it never ceases to amaze me how superficial public investing can be, simply because there is so much information that public investors don’t have access to. at the end of the day, i cared less about what was perceived to be the “easier” transition for me (i.e. asset management/hedge funds) and was more driven by what i thought would excite me most (private equity). in the end, i persevered and got it done, and i feel very fortunate that i was able to get this opportunity. but i also had the foresight to realize that it is very difficult to do well at something that i wasn’t all that passionate about – specifically, so many people think they can just go to a hedge fund and start reeling in millions of dollars, but there is some serious survivorship bias here. specifically, the people that last long enough to talk about the fortunes they’ve amassed are the ones that have done really well at their hedge funds; in comparison, there are multitudes of others who try their hand at hedge fund investing but just can’t hack it, and eventually get fired or leave on their own accord. making money in the stock markets is very difficult as well, and definitely not for the faint of heart. quite frankly, i also didn’t think i was a shoo-in to do well at hedge funds. while i did consider fundamentally-focused and value-oriented funds (since this is more similar to my own personal style of investing), i felt that my investing approach as well as personality and temperament were better suited for private equity. basically, i figured i should try my hand at private equity, since even if i later realize it’s not my cup of tea, i will still have rounded out my finance skill set so that it includes both the analytical side (research) and transactional side (private equity). and with a top undergrad, 2-4 years of experience in sell-side research, and 2-3 years of experience in private equity, i feel like i will have a realistic shot at getting into a top business school, at which point i can further assess my career objectives again if necessary. " I hope this helps
For Chriss, PE in Amsterdam sounds like the safer bet. Brazil still has some risks associated with an Emerging Market (rule of law, infrastructure, etc.), so if you don’t know the language and aren’t familiar with the culture, that shock can make it a challenge to perform well and hit the ground running. That said, I’ve lived in Rio and Sao Paulo, speak fluent Portuguese and would love the opportunity to do work for a Brazilian hedge fund myself. I don’t have the dates set yet, but I’m planning to go down there sometime in the next month or two and would love to meet with potential fund managers in Rio or Sampa. If anyone can help me with introductions, I’d be “grato pra’ caramba” (very grateful). email@example.com
Unless you have an utter lack of faith in the hedge fund, go with the hedge fund over Private Equity. I am assuming the Private Equity fund is a rather small or medium fund (instead of the bigger one). Given your age, you want as much upside as possible and a hedge fund in Brazil will be a better option than the private equity in Amsterdam, especially in the long run with the emerging market angle. The upside, if you’re good and can generate alpha, is more immediate in Hedge fund … if that matters to you. :). For what it’s worth, I think recent growth in Brazil are legit and there are lot of positives going on (notwithstanding the current stock performance). Financial markets are in disarray… but it will come back. Hedge funds will continue to survive, if not thrive (can’t imagine people not shifting assets from mutual fund to alternative given how poor these long-only guys have performed). With private equity, i dont know when there will be light at the end of the tunnel. With most banks in deleveraging mode, I just don’t see the debt market being very receptive to private equity. Loans are quoted at LIBOR + 500bp (last I check), it just hard to make deals work at those terms. Deal flows are dry; hiring have been non-existant; and it’s anyone’s guess when it will rebound. I have to imagine that recent deals that were completed in prior years, that had previously been in the money … are now bad investment. That has to work its way into the systems…