This post is intended as more of a question rather than a statement. With the US election looming and all the debates, I got to thinking about the US economy, the deficit, the sky-rocketing national debt, etc. With regards to US defence spending, does anyone look at this fat turkey and think maybe it’s time to start downsizing a bit. I understand that the US defence budget isn’t just about military capability, it’s obviously tied in with jobs that it invariably provides (from army personal, to military equipment suppliers, and all the way down the chain). But what is the end benefit for America of having such a huge military capability aside from the jobs it creates? Americans get all up in arms about spending money on healthcare, green energy, education, arguing there just isn’t money in the pot. Wouldn’t these create jobs though in the same way that military spending would? And wouldn’t these causes at least provide long term benefits? What is the long term benefit of $200m jet fighter these days? At the very least, shouldn’t the US be trimming back spending a bit when it comes to military spending? Surely there must be some fat that can be trimmed off somewhere. Spending $800bn a year on military just seems crazy when you consider the levels of debt. How is this all going to end? It just seems irresponsible to continue without taking some drastic measures. Again, I realize I’m probably being naive on these issues which is why I’m asking a question, not making a statement. Can someone please explain to me why spending so much money on defence is justified?
It is not so much that it is “justified” but rather you have to understand the role of the military. In most countries, the military is there to defend the nations’ borders. However, the US enjoys extreme strategic depth, and as a result the US military is really there to defend its strategic interests globally.
What that means then is essentially - the US military is expected to dwarf any potential global competitor and hence the elevated spending.
I think it’s a mistake to start from “we’re spending too much” but rather you need to start with - what are the US’s strategic priorities? Is it a good idea to be the pre-eminent force in Europe? Should Japan and Australia be expected to carry a greater military burden in East Asia?
Both parties believe in big government, just depends on where you spend it.
and you have to think of the possible consequences. If we pulled out of foreign affairs, saved tons of money, and suddenly Iran creates nukes, sells it to some psycho terrorist group and they launch one at the US and incinerate NYC. Would that be worth it?
It probably would have been cheaper to spend the money to try to prevent it in the first place.
But this is the question I’m posing? Given the US’s financial situation, can it really afford to “enjoy extreme strategic depth”. The national debt was like, what, $2 trillion when Bush came into office (that was like, yesterday), now it’s $16 trillion and growing fast.
What I don’t get is isn’t time to face the facts and accept that the US can’t afford to keep acting like the big kid on the block anymore. I know Americans like to feel all like “USA No. 1” and all, but where is this all going? I’d be shit scared carrying debt levels that high.
I see friends and family of mine who have multiple credit cards maxed out and they spend money on stuff like new phone every year, new cars, etc. I just want to grab these people and give them a good shake and tell them to wake the f*ck up. This is what I feel with the US and it’s attitude towards spending on stuff like defence, wake the f*ck up, you are up to your eye-balls in debt, you need to act now.
If the US didn’t spend so much money on “defence” and stick it’s nose everywhere it didn’t belong in the first place, then countries like Iran and terrorist groups wouldn’t have a problem with America.
I just think the US needs to worry about it’s own problems at home instead of worrying about issues everywhere else. Become a country like Belgium. Nobody hates Belgium, they just mind their own business and everyone leaves them in peace, terrorist issues solved!
If the US never got involved in the middle east and picked a side (unconditional support to a country), other countries wouldn’t feel the need to nuke the US.
It all comes down to how much we want to subsidize Israel. Do we continue on the current foreign policy path and spend billions to be the only nation to unconditionally support a country or do we say a nation with 500 nukes should be able to defend for itself.
Cutting military spending doesn’t necessarily mean that “defense” will become less effective. Spending just needs to be allocated more efficiently. The problem is that no one has the political will to take an axe to the defense budget. So, there is no incentive to run the military efficiently. I guarantee that if a private company wasted as much money as the US government, that company would be bankrupt.
There is also this preoccupation with the US being #1 in everything, especially the military. This is a national pride delusion. Terrorists would love to blow up the UK, Israel, or Vatican City. None of these places spends nearly as much money on defense as the US, yet, they are all still around. China is going to be the #1 military very soon, and this scares the shit out of US people for no real reason. If it really mattered, then all non-#1 militaries would be toast. Suck on that, Canada.
I can relate to the US using military to control economic interests, for instance, oil. However, it is 100% blatantly clear that many decisions that are made under the pretense of economic interest are actually made based on some kind of warped world police ideology. Take Iraq for instance.
In addition, many pork barrel projects are tied to local economic interests. Fighter jets, ships, TSA body scanners, all have some kind of politician pushing for them, since they support local jobs. If you don’t support these projects, you are unpatriotic and the terrorists win. So in the end, it’s the problem where the interests of a vocal minority outweigh the interests of a non-vocal majority.
So in summary, a lot of shit is fucked up in the US. It’s a big issue when military spending is like 5% of GDP. A lot of people recognize this problem. How to fix it should be obvious, but no politician wants to touch this issue. It’s like abortion, social security, or guns. So, looks like we are stuck here for a while…
RE: opinions about US’s role in world defense. It seems to me that US people take the the role of the US more seriously than non-US people. Take a look at people here, for instance. I know it’s a small sample, but:
People who believe US should cut military spending: cleverCFA (Australia), former trader (Canada)… well I think that is what he is saying, ohai (US, but only recently).
People who say US military spending is justified (or “it’s complicated”): iteracom (US), Palantir (US)
So, even if you don’t decide on who is right or wrong, it seems like there is a divergence in attitudes about this, depending on whether or not you are a US person.
Strategic depth means distance from your enemies. US has that…Israel or Taiwan or India do not.
Personally, I think it’s better for the US to roll back presence in Europe, and have Australia and Japan invest and develop their military and work in partnership with them. Also would be a good idea to improve relations with Russia and stop treating them as the enemy. But oh well. Remember, military policy goes hand in hand with foreign policy.
So simply, it’s a mistake to say “we need to cut spending”, as the deeper (and more existential question) is - what are the USM’s priorities? What is US foreign policy in Europe? Is Russia still an enemy? Is it the US’s responsibility to defend Europe or should that be Germany, France, and Britain’s? Once that is clarified (I suspect it is not), it becomes clear where to cut spending.
Is your homeland of Australia willing to develop a large military to act as a buffer against China?
There is also a moral hazard when the US spends so much on military. Allies (developed countries) feel they can underinvest because the US will protect them if ever a major war breaks out.
The New Zealanders actually sold their air force. Decided they didn’t need it. I guess the US would probably step in if they got attacked so why bother spending money on planes/pilot training/etc.
It’s not only International vs US, it’s also leftwing US vs rightwing US.
What about the Budget Control Act and sequestration, which could cut overall defense spending by an aggregate $1 trillion? Are people here saying that’s not sufficient, or does this discussion have more to do with how the cuts need to be allocated?
The discussion is more high-level: given the US economic position (exploding national debt), how can you possibly justify spending $800bn a year on your military. The US spends more on defence that all of the next 10 countries put together. Isn’t it time to start scaling that back and focusing on problems at home?
No, we prefer to spend our tax dollars on more important things like quality public healthcare and education.
The argument that “well if we didn’t spend so much in the first place, no one would hate us” doesn’t do anything for anybody, because you can’t change the past. You can only look to the future.
So, how much risk is it now to disarm and withdrawal totally ?
And there’s your answer of why the US maintains such high defense spending.
You can’t change the past, but surely your actions can dictate the course of your future.
If the US took the foreign policy stance of Belgium, why would anyone have any reason to hate them? Keep a token military strength to defend against potential invasions by Mexico and Canada, stop interfering in the middle east, stop propping up foreign governments/ideologies. Just stay at home and focus on what’s important at home.
I know it’s not what Americans like to hear. Americans want to hear that USA is Number 1, that they’re the most powerful country in the world, top dog dictating how the world should be run and all that. But how long can America continue to fund this illusion with piles of foreign debt? Where is it all going to end?
Also, I don’t see how $200m jet fighters and billion dollar B2 bombers help given the enemy of today is fighting with nothing more than AK-47s and RPGs.