I was talking to my friend about the CA (chartered accountancy) designation from India. He is pursuing that and its highly valued there. Also, he says the exams are a beeyatch…and as tough as the CFA program if not more. In fact, he was saying the final exam is the toughest of the lot with pass rates apparantly around 5-6% 9(havent bothered to check this personally). But anyone with familiarity to the program, please attest. Also, here’s the interesting fact. I believe there are three big exams in the CA program. But in order to give the final exam, you need three and half years of articleship (work experience). It just made me wonder, whether the CFA institute should do something like this too, in order to not dilute the value of the designation. I mean, from what I hear, every other Tom, Dick and Harry seems to be interested in the CFA program now. What do you guys think? Make it mandatory to have work experience before attempting the final exam in order to receive the designation? Also, few other questions. If you talk to anyone from India, and ask them about the Indian Institute of Management (IIM) and the Indian Institute of Technology( IIT), they make it sound like its the ultimate achievement in life. I mean, its like…you get into one of these schools and your life is made. And they even say the guys who go to these schools are much much smarter than guys at MIT, Wharton etc. Althought I don’t deny this, (it could be true if 500,000 are competing for 5,000 seats), how come they are never herd of in the top 10 or in the world rankings? This is something I haven’t understood. A school of that calibre should atleast be spoken as much as the Ivys. Final question, its very random…why do people do both CPA and CFA, even though they are completely different areas? I can’t imagine the interviewer grilling me about how confused I must be in life for doing both…
hi Sparty, I couldnt understand for what reason you were worried about Indians from IIT/IIM.This is true these institutions are renowned but couldnt make space in world top 10,not because they were not worthwhile but the reason is not being exposed worldwide somehow.All IIT/IIM have high percentage of indians rather foreighn students unlike MIT/Wharton. As you mentioned guys from IIT/IIM are boast of being part of it,even claim ahead of MIT/Wharton. Well i would say based on entrance test level,number of cadidates and number of vacancies make these institutions famous.Needless to say,Entrance in harvard/Wharton/MIT would not as difficult as in IIMs but however even a fresher without having any work experience can also enter these B Schools. Glimpse of Average salaries in these IIMs would define their importance if you try to look for it.These institutions are not yet having in infracstruture,international faculities,facilities like IVYs though the students carry the flag of these institutions high by entering into top notch companies with the salaries at par of any IVYs. When it comes to ranking,it always considers lot more factor,not just entrace exam levels.
- CA is extremely challenging and it takes a life to clear those 3 exams and the 3 year articleship. Pass rate is indeed only 3% to 5% - I personally believe a person who manages to get in IIM-A should have personal VIP seat reserved in HBS or it’s like. The immense competition to get in those IIM’s is literally impossible. If you even get a 99.7 %tile, you probably don’t make it to IIMA, as the cut-off is usually 99.8% and looking at the immense competition and the huge population in India, getting into one such esteemed B-school is more like an acrobatic feat. This is how I think about it - If I work real hard in all aspects for next 10 yrs, I might be able to crack the HBS panel, If I try the same for IIMA, It should take me somewhere close to 25 years give and take… call me incompetent, but the fact remains!
Give a break…so what if your brain power rivals aliens who are 100 year more advanced than current humans? Elite business schools are looking for leaders in business who are great in all facets of life. Comparing elite brainiac schools to elite business schools are not apples-to-apples comps. Just because 1 out of 100,000 people is accepted in 1 school does not mean the same candidate is qualified for another highly selective school. Julliard is a highly selective school…just cause someone is accepted into Julliard, that doesn’t mean his credentials are good enough for HBS/IIM/Zoolander school for kids who can’t read good.
3% - 5% pass rate on the CA exams? Don’t believe it. Please supply evidence of this if you can. Until you do, I say BS.
BishBosh Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > 3% - 5% pass rate on the CA exams? > > Don’t believe it. > > Please supply evidence of this if you can. Until > you do, I say BS. I also read somewhere that it was ridiculously low, not sure what the numbers were though.
My cousin is doing it, so I should get the latest stats from her. In the past it was ridiculously low as stated in this article http://www.merinews.com/catFull.jsp?articleID=123914 “However, for most the dream always remained a dream because most students failed to clear thigh CA bar. Clearing the examination was almost like moving a mountain. The pass percentage remained as low as 7 or 8 and was never in the double digit.” Now I heard they have increased the band to somewhere between 15% - 20%, just to increase the popularity – mind games, you know!
If 99.7% of people applying don’t get accepted, it sounds like a lot of people are pretty dumb for applying. Just because they are selecting out of a huge population doesn’t mean those top people are smarter than Harvard students, it just means the huge population clearly doesn’t have many good alternatives. If Harvard and Stanford were the only elite schools in the US, they would be a lot harder to get into.
CA pass rate has been single digits historically. While the exam is definitely very difficult (as heard from people who have attempted/passed it), I think one of the reasons for the low rates is that the number of people taking it is very high, because almost every student in India aspires for higher education/certifications, even though they may not have the necessary skill to complete it.
>Final question, its very random…why do people do both CPA and CFA, even though they >are completely different areas? I can’t imagine the interviewer grilling me about how >confused I must be in life for doing both… Sparty419, Not sure why you would say this a CPA and a CFA are not completely different. In fact the exams overlap FSA, and ECON (to a lesser degree). If anything they complement each other. Case 1: Straight out of school you get a job as an auditor, and happen to audit hedge funds, and/or PE shops. You get your CPA as expected. Then decide that you want to work for a HF. You then get to know the Hedge fund you’re auditing and want to get a middle or front office job with them. Obtaining the CFA Charter would greatly help when trying to hired by a HF or PE firm. In case you’re wondering the CFAI has approved work experience for people who audit financial companies. Case 2: Your an auditor for a national retail clothing store, and wish to switch over to an IB as an analyst for retail clothing. Taking the CFA exams is a logical course of action. From auditing the company you presumably have a decent handle on the industry. Taking the CFA exams and passing demonstrates your knowledge of valuations. These two skill sets combined makes one an appealing candidate for an analyst position at an IB. Case 3: You work in the valuation group of an Accounting firm. You are encouraged to get CFA, as this will help your skill set when doing a valuation review. In fact the big 4 firms pay for the classes and the exam. Case 4: You are a CPA in private practice. You mostly do prepare taxes for high net worth individuals, in addition you also however act as a financial advisor for your client; asset allocation etc… You may wish to obtain the CFA to enhance your knowledge as well as pedigree. Granted some may argue that a CFP is more appropriate. I happened to know a fair number of people who have a CPA and a CFA. I wouldn’t say that it is unusual at all to be both, especially if you started out at an accounting firm.
i know mad dudes with CPA and CFA. more common than you think, esp on buy side.
chintz Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > CA pass rate has been single digits historically. > While the exam is definitely very difficult (as > heard from people who have attempted/passed it), I > think one of the reasons for the low rates is that > the number of people taking it is very high, > because almost every student in India aspires for > higher education/certifications, even though they > may not have the necessary skill to complete it. Totally agreed
Re: Value to CFA designation new Posted by: kevin0118 (IP Logged) [hide posts from this user] Date: August 29, 2008 09:10AM Give a break…so what if your brain power rivals aliens who are 100 year more advanced than current humans? Elite business schools are looking for leaders in business who are great in all facets of life. Comparing elite brainiac schools to elite business schools are not apples-to-apples comps. Just because 1 out of 100,000 people is accepted in 1 school does not mean the same candidate is qualified for another highly selective school. Julliard is a highly selective school…just cause someone is accepted into Julliard, that doesn’t mean his credentials are good enough for HBS/IIM/Zoolander school for kids who can’t read good. ________________ Agreed - - most top graduate schools US look for a combination of leadership and academic ability among other things. If they just focused on brainpower, what kind of leaders would we have running our companies and countries?
ok…what about the question I raised about work experience? I personally believe it will be good if the last exam can be given on the basis of prior work experience. I think this will add more value to the designation. I think passing 3 exams will just attract more college students to just knock off the exams while they are in the study phase anyway and flood the market while they would have to start from scratch ( internship excluded). What do you guys think? P.S. I am still in college, graduating in dec.
I think the fact that you need work experience to get the charter is enough. If you pass the exams beforehand, your employer can make the decision about whether it is valuable or not.
There are many Indians on the CPAnet forum some even CAs who passed the CPA exam but are struggling to get a job as a bookkeeper.