I dont get it, I read about all these investment bankers getting laid off etc. When I worked at Goldmans an investment banker was someone who worked in the IBD, surely there arent that many IB’ers to be laid off? They are just referring to anyone who works for an investment bank right? Seems a lot of people refer to other workers as investment bankers (those not in IBD)
To most people an IB’ers is anyone who works at a bank - front/back/middle office.
That’s what you get when English majors write these articles.
Yeh, its not good, because people will read of these layoffs and be like, screw them tehy were making heaps anyway. But not everyone in BO and MO are on huge paypackets, and work hard for an honest wage just like everyone else in other industries.
Investment Bankers help take companies public, help create financing strategies and divestiture strategies and all kinds of other things. But the more and more I think about it, the more I realize that they are simply glorified sales people. Willy
WillyR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Investment Bankers help take companies public, > help create financing strategies and divestiture > strategies and all kinds of other things. But the > more and more I think about it, the more I realize > that they are simply glorified sales people. > > Willy + 1…
I say that because of all my “big shooter” i-banking buddies not a dam single one of them have ever provided me with a decent stock tip. I mean they are horrible. Terrible. Sure if you need a massive spreadsheet constructed on an LBO or an IPO yeah god bless them, they rule. But they crappy stock pickers because they let Excel tell them what a good investment is rather than thinking about it. Willy
How many IPO’s do you think are going down in this market, outside the financials, there isn’t much M&A either due to restricted credit and increased costs associated with raising capital. So yes, I find it easy to believe true IBD’ers would be getting laid off.
WillyR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I say that because of all my “big shooter” > i-banking buddies not a dam single one of them > have ever provided me with a decent stock tip. I > mean they are horrible. Who relies on stock tips?
Not I, not from investment bankers thats for certain. Willy
WillyR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I say that because of all my “big shooter” > i-banking buddies not a dam single one of them > have ever provided me with a decent stock tip. I > mean they are horrible. Terrible. Sure if you need > a massive spreadsheet constructed on an LBO or an > IPO yeah god bless them, they rule. But they > crappy stock pickers because they let Excel tell > them what a good investment is rather than > thinking about it. > > Willy Huh…they rule at LBO and IPO becaue that is actually core IB… Stock picking is not what investment bankers do…
black swan: actually m&a activity in the first half of this year has not looked bad at all on a global level. it’s just that the financials are not there and strategics are stepping up the effort.
WillyR Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I say that because of all my “big shooter” > i-banking buddies not a dam single one of them > have ever provided me with a decent stock tip. I > mean they are horrible. Terrible. Sure if you need > a massive spreadsheet constructed on an LBO or an > IPO yeah god bless them, they rule. But they > crappy stock pickers because they let Excel tell > them what a good investment is rather than > thinking about it. > > Willy Agree with you, but disagree slightly with the reasoning. I was in M&A for a while. I modelled a lot; I did it without thinking. I didn’t have time to think and my boss was not interested. The model was something that needed to get done and needed to show a pre-determined result - that bank XYZ should buy bank ABC - because we had already set a date for said pitch. I would say it is a marketing role, as opposed to sales. The distinction in my mind is that you create the idea to a certain extent, as opposed to sales which, again in my mind, is the simple communication of an idea.
Ha, sales & marketing is only a small part of what an ibanker does. There’s much much more to the job than selling. if you ask an investment banker for a stock tip then you really have no idea what exactly 99% of investment bankers do.
I would argue that investment bankers (people in IBD) have a better understanding of a company at the end of a deal than an equity analyst right before they pitch an idea. It would be an interesting experiment. Take a banker or deal team (and by banker I mean someone in IBD) and an equity analyst or team, give them a month or two, and ask them to present their best investment idea (public or private). Then see who wins.
jlx177 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I would argue that investment bankers (people in > IBD) have a better understanding of a company at > the end of a deal than an equity analyst right > before they pitch an idea. > > It would be an interesting experiment. Take a > banker or deal team (and by banker I mean someone > in IBD) and an equity analyst or team, give them a > month or two, and ask them to present their best > investment idea (public or private). Then see who > wins. Having done both, I can say tell you that the equity analyst would win, ceteris paribus. And the reason is that, on the buyside, I am not distracted by anything. I can just focus on getting to grips with the problem at hand. In M&A, on a deal, I would have to sit in endless meetings, put together endless slides, etc… oh, and there was none of our money at stake, so we didn’t really care whether the deal was a good one or not…
my friends on the buyside tell me that they become more sceptical about companies and view the world from a more negative point of view than ibankers i’m in IBD and i must say that we look at things from a very optimistic viewpoint (high synergies, margin expansion, sales growth…) lol…
Forget about all the meetings, ppt slides, etc. Just assume that both teams are tasked tasked with doing research & analysis and making an investment choice. Who’s actually better at analyzing/making sense of stuff and using that info to predict future performance?
jlx177 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Forget about all the meetings, ppt slides, etc. > Just assume that both teams are tasked tasked with > doing research & analysis and making an investment > choice. > > Who’s actually better at analyzing/making sense of > stuff and using that info to predict future > performance? ok - tougher to have a view on… I still have to go ER, because people in ER have better knowledge of finance/accounting. People in IB, like the stereotype, talk better game.
I buy it. You’re prolly right.