I was wondering the best place to start looking for an entry level job as a CFA candidate with 0 work experience and having passed all 3 exams on the first attempt. I picked up poker in university (Western- finance degree) and did extremely well at it, making it my full time job after graduating. I am 27 now and have not a standard job since a summer job when I was 19 cutting grass. I live in downtown Toronto and would have started looking for a job about a year and a half ago after passing level II, but for family circumstances that made continuing with poker due to its flexible schedule the only option for me.
Anyway, I’ve heard bond traders look favourbaly upon poker players among other positions, but I need to get my foot in the door somewhere and preferably somewhere that allows rapid advancement so a major bank is probably not a good option? I do have connections that could get me job interviews at banks, but feel like looking on my own first is best for the reason mentioned above. Investment banking and venture capital are fields I find interesting. Statistics was my worst part of the CFA exams.
What are the best places to look for entry level jobs? What kind of entry level job should I look for? (I would prefer to prefer to avoid working more than 65 hours a week- Is that reasonable?)
I should add that internships are probably preferred, but how do I go about getting a good one? I don’t require any money due to having a solid amount of investments from poker.
You probably know other HNW indviduals from your success and travels. Start your own firm. If you can attract 10 million+, you are on your way. Four years from now, get your charter. Might as well.
I’ll take that as a question. I’m in a good mood.Happens every day. I personally know a handful of examples that started with only “friends and family” accounts and no experience.This industry is more about trust than anything else. Might want to personalize your barriers. You’ll reach your goals faster.
Off-topic query: How come you are good at Poker while bad at Stats at the same time? Is not Poker all about calculating probabilities in the head? I am asking this because I like Poker and would want to make it as a hobby. Thanks
^ Statistics and probability are very different things. Probability is generally raw theory and non-empirical. Statistics is the application to data using models.
I used to also be an online poker pro, although admittedly with less success than you (I assume you’re the same guy from 2p2). I transitioned out about 3 years ago and it was fairly difficult to get my foot in the door just about anywhere, but I found that in general I had much better success at smaller companies. It’s easier to directly sell a hiring manager on your story than get an HR department present a non-traditional candidate. I know you said you don’t want to hit up your friends for jobs, but you need to leverage them. Don’t outright ask them to find you a job, but let them know that you’re looking to make a transition and ask for their advice. See if they can help you set up informational interviews with someone they know at a place you’d like to break into.
It sounds obvious, but the main thing is to convey your story in a thoughtful manner that makes you seem intelligent and entreprenuarial rather than a degenerate who gambles. Be prepared for the standard comments like “Oh my brother plays blackjack sometimes, so you guys do the same thing?” and “How do you read somebody if you’re playing online?” You need to be able to spin this in a positive light without talking down to the person. Don’t get into technical stuff if you don’t have to because it will bog down the interview and you don’t have a ton of time to convince them that you’re the right person for the job. Even if they are really interested in your poker story don’t spend too long on it, instead try to steer it back to how that experience will help you in the role. Another thing is that since you’re coming from a weird background, you need to know your shit that much more than your competition. One of my first interviews was at a boutique IB and I stumbled walking through BS/IS/CF (before it got drilled into me by CFA curriculum) and the guy basically ended the interview right there.
If you’re interested in IB/VC you may be better off attending a full time MBA program so you have access to on campus recruiting and rebrand. I think at 27 you’re a little old for an analyst position and you’d have a better shot at going to school and coming in at an associate level. I could be off base on this, but it’s something to think about.
Edit - One last thing I found that interviewers really responded to was painting a picture of the opportunities poker afforded you. For example, after graduating I moved to Australia for 6 months. I had a place on the beach and surfed every morning. Since I could play poker from anywhere I used it as an opportunity to try things that I otherwise wouldn’t have been able to. I think framing your experience like this makes you more interesting, validates your choices in potential employers’ eyes, and is much more powerful than “I made $X/hour over Y hours 12 tabling 5/10 NL.”
BigT2k: I am in the same spot, although I am only a L2 candidate, my previous job was when I was 17 y/o. I am now 24, moved to Asia, have done a lot of stuff outside of poker/finance but never had a proper resume.
I will be looking for a finance job in the very near future, but that hole in the ‘‘soon to be written’’ resume is a problem. Would have been so much easier by finding an internship on campus! FWIW I am not planning to get a MsC or other studies in the near future, as some people in this thread suggested.
I am interested on how your job search turned out for you! GL! Oh and I found some old 200-400 HH’s of yours… Very nice!
I think you can pick up an entry level job with CFA level 2 with some broking firm as a research analyst .And later move to Investment banking or Venture capitalist after some experience and good network .All the investment banks consider the prior experience before thay take you into investment banking . The certification Level 1 & Level 2 will be added advantage at the places where there is a compulsory requirement of these certifications. Along with the job after that you can attempt level 3 .
After hopefully passing L2 in June, I will get busy finding that job. I was also looking in the market making / derivatives trading / brokerage direction, which seems fascinating yet without a quants background, there might be a ceiling to what I can bring to these firms.
"Former Trader: Just red ‘‘Flash boys’’, finished it an hour ago!!! Nice read that was! Now going through what was brought up in the book to find out what is real and what is fiction…
Thats correct without a quants background and programming skills there is a limit as to the opportunities in these areas. Possible options would definitlely be more in research and/ or sales