Okay guys, left my old firm and I have a couple opportunities. I think I know which one I’m going to take, but wanted to get your input. Job 1) Junior Trader - The title is a misleading. It’s a firm that has developed a system that automatically places trades in certain names. The traders job is basically to manage those trades and look for areas that the system needs help with. Monitoring news releases, FDA announcements, etc. It’s a pretty solid base salary with nice bonus potential, depending on firm profitability. Can make 90k plus. Good job security, nice hours, and they will pay for an MBA at a top program. Job 2) Trader - Typical trading job. It’s for a proprietary options firm. They are top of the line, especially the group I’d be with. Will have 5mil haircut+. Competitive base, obviously bonus potential is limitless, decent hours, casual dress, sometimes catered lunches. Still have to ask about the MBA. Job security here is a lot less lower than Job 1.
dont think this is really a comparison, as long as #2 will provide you with training/mnetoring from people who actually know how to trade its a much better choice
Agree. Not close unless you are very risk averse, in which case you need to think about a different line of work.
Is no.1 is program trading job at sellside? If it is, DON"T take it. Its a really boring job. I would take no.2 as well.
APM Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Is no.1 is program trading job at sellside? If it > is, DON"T take it. Its a really boring job. > > I would take no.2 as well. No its not a programming job. It’s basically to keep an eye on the system that makes the trades. A system can only do so much and sometimes human thought is required. So basically to monitor what the system is doing and adjust as necessary. Obviously its not as exciting as Job #2, but the overall comp. package and benefits is pretty enticing.
imho, take #2. I’d be willing to bet that #1 will still be available later on if it doesn’t work out for you.
Isn’t it obvious?? I think you are just trying to boast here.
maddane Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Isn’t it obvious?? I think you are just trying to > boast here. No I’m not trying to boast. Like I said in my original post, I am leaning towards #2 but just wanted some feedback from some other people in the financial community.
> maddane Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- Like I said in my > original post, I am leaning towards #2 but just > wanted some feedback from some other people in the > financial community. Your OP and follow-ups led me to think that you were leaning towards #1. Anyway… If your goal is to get a top MBA and do anything other than trading down the road then I think it’s a no brainer and I would go with #1. However, if you want to be a trader 'til you retire and actually have the skill set needed to trade options profitably then #2 is definately the way to go. A successful trader has no need for ever getting a MBA. The choice seems pretty clear to me.
TeamHydro Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Competitive base, obviously bonus potential is > limitless By obvious do you mean that you have it in writing? Not trying to talk trash about this position, because it could be good, but that may be something you want to look into… Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s a good job and you’re in good shape, but I’m just not sure its a no-brainer… I would still recommend it though… If this is unrelated to any of your previous posts please disregard…
I do NOT think you need any kind of MBA if your way is a way of a trader. You need trading experience at good place, with experienced traders.
The reason for wanting to get an MBA is because down the road, I’d like to transition to a hedge fund or prop desk of an I-bank. That’s pretty hard to do just trading for prop shops. I think the MBA would help me make the necessary contacts to help get in the door.
Hydro - what kind of trading experience do you have now (your own account?) and what instruments?
TeamHydro Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > The reason for wanting to get an MBA is because > down the road, I’d like to transition to a hedge > fund or prop desk of an I-bank. That’s pretty > hard to do just trading for prop shops. I think > the MBA would help me make the necessary contacts > to help get in the door. If choice 2 is what I think it is, then you won’t need to go to far out of your way to meet guys who can network their way into prop jobs at banks. (forgive me if it’s not) The spoiler is you may find that the prop job at the bank isn’t always as sexy as you think it is… A prominent former prop trader whose company was a predecessor to many of the prop trading groups at a certain BB will most likely be at your xmas party every year. In other words, your networking from the job will do a lot more for you than the MBA that I imagine you’re thinking about…
BosyBillups Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Hydro - what kind of trading experience do you > have now (your own account?) and what instruments? Bosy - I was at another prominent prop firm recently. Option Trading experience. Trading the volatility. And I trade my own account too but I just dabble around with pennies. I’m young and don’t have enough capital to do much in my account just yet. Hopefully in a few years.
ahahah Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > TeamHydro Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > The reason for wanting to get an MBA is because > > down the road, I’d like to transition to a > hedge > > fund or prop desk of an I-bank. That’s pretty > > hard to do just trading for prop shops. I > think > > the MBA would help me make the necessary > contacts > > to help get in the door. > > > If choice 2 is what I think it is, then you won’t > need to go to far out of your way to meet guys who > can network their way into prop jobs at banks. > (forgive me if it’s not) The spoiler is you may > find that the prop job at the bank isn’t always as > sexy as you think it is… A prominent former > prop trader whose company was a predecessor to > many of the prop trading groups at a certain BB > will most likely be at your xmas party every year. > In other words, your networking from the job will > do a lot more for you than the MBA that I imagine > you’re thinking about… Yeah that’s a good point aha. Very good point. Still though, having the MBA is a nice security blanket to have.
It’s not just a “security blanket”, it;s also a VERY expensive way to spend 1 or even 2 years (considering alternative costs, total cost of this security blanket in a 2-year program will be about…at least 600k USD, maybe more. tuition cost, living expenses, and absence of regular yearly income of at least 200-250k all-in).
Neud Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > (considering alternative costs, total cost of this > security blanket in a 2-year program will be > about…at least 600k USD, maybe more. tuition > cost, living expenses, and absence of regular > yearly income of at least 200-250k all-in). If you think prop trading is a guaranteed 200-250k/year you’re kidding yourself. Not that you won’t have good years (possibly well over you’re stated rate), but you’ll also have years with 60k in income, and quite possibly at higher levels, 0 and negative income. That shouldn’t be the case with a top MBA…
Come on man. 200-250k per yeas is not at all much. It’s what people at pre-MBA levels are usually making in the market (i mean, in investment business). Say, experienced IBD analysts or pre-MBA PE guys. I think, for traders at junior levels its pretty much the same - on average.
Neud Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Come on man. 200-250k per yeas is not at all much. > It’s what people at pre-MBA levels are usually > making in the market (i mean, in investment > business). Say, experienced IBD analysts or > pre-MBA PE guys. I think, for traders at junior > levels its pretty much the same - on average. Well for one, those salaries are not the norm at the shops we’re talking about and in addition, the lifestyle in the jobs you’re talking about is effectively non-sustainable. Your not going to work the hours forever, and if you ever get canned without going to b-school, you have to go a long way to mitigate the risk of not having an MBA, when everyone else your competing with for jobs does. That is, unless you want to stay at the analyst level forever… I know, I read the NYT article too, but if you were doing an NPV analysis, I’m not sure you could take the opportunity cost to be $200-$250 indefinitely…