My girlfriend took the LSAT December 5th. Today she received an email giving her an “unofficial” score of 150. She’s all nervous about getting in somewhere for Fall 2011 with that score. She definitely has time to retake the test, but does she have to? SPECS: Undergraduate: Central Methodist University (MO) - Senior Standing Major: B.S. - Accounting Cumulative GPA: 3.57 LSAT Score: 150 She wants to get into UMKC, SLU, or KU. Do you think she’ll have a shot? Or should she just sign back up for round 2? Schools Specs: 25th - 75th Percentile KU — GPA: 3.15-3.77 LSAT: 154-160 SLU — GPA: 3.20-3.67 LSAT: 153-159 UMKC — Third Teir School — GPA: 3.07-3.68 LSAT: 152-157
I didn’t think results came out until Jan. 27??? Did she pay extra to get her’s sooner?
They send them you through an unofficial email in advance.
The percentiles you listed for the LSAT scores are pretty rigid. It’s fairly hard to get into a school if you have an LSAT score below the 25th percentile even with a stellar GPA and great ECs. My best friend is currently going through the law school app process and he explained all the ins and outs of LSAT scores and how the schools view them. She might want to consider giving it another shot.
She should retake, not only because her score falls below the lower end of the threshold, but perhaps more importantly because she’ll probably keep agonizing about whether she’s good enough which will only create distractions in other areas of her life. LSAT is easily the most important consideration for law school admissions. My verdict: she should retake the LSAT.
I guess the question is did she just walk in and take it or did she study for months and do practice exams etc. from her opinion was she level headed when she took it or was she nervous got stuck on questions etc. Depends on if she thinks she could do better next time.
Average, hence retake.
That score looks awful to me. Remember, she is going to have to be at least in the top 10% of her class to have any decent full time and internship offers coming from those schools.
She should retake. I cannot imagine that she will do worse.
I would say she shoudl retake. I took the LSAT junior year of college, bombed, then took it again that year after studying hardcore and performed well. A lot of time wasted though, since I ended up doing a double major and entering the work force rather than going to law school. Seriously, I think I hated the LSAT more than any other test, which is probably a good indication that I would hate being a lawyer. Like those questions where they ask if you have 5 starting spots and 7 bench spots on the girls basketball team and you ahve 10 seniors 7 juniors and 5 sophmores is it more likely that…hated it.
As someone way, way too familiar with the law school admissions process (numi can vouch for me), I can’t help but chime in here. First off, I would really caution her NOT to go to law school. It’s not a path to instant wealth, it’s expensive, and the legal hiring market is abysmal. Not exactly the ideal situation to be jumping into. Make sure she thinks long and hard about this, talks to current law students, etc. Do your due diligence! That being said, admissions to pretty much everywhere with the exception of the top two or three schools is very formulaic. Essentially it’s all determined by GPA and LSAT. Judging from those stats posted, she seems to be around the median GPA and below the 25%tile LSAT. I think the best case scenario she can hope for is a wait list initially and getting in to one of those schools sometime in the spring. Of course, if she’s a URM that changes things for the better. I would advise her to do the following: Work for a year, take a good LSAT prep class (either Powerscore or Testmasters), and reapply with a higher LSAT score. The LSAT is very formulaic and learnable so with the proper preparation I think she could improve plus schools are no longer required to average scores. Good luck. If you or her have any questions feel free to shoot me a private message anytime.
Thanks everyone for chiming in. I talked with her a bunch last night, and we decided to retake. She has plenty of time, and if she can improve her score she can increase her chances significantly of getting into a law school of her choice. Not to mention potential scholarship opportunities if she can really boost her score. Unfortunately she did put a decent amount of time studying for it in the first place, but I feel like there is some room for improvement. One thing is the night before she stayed at my place, which is probably not the best idea because only she’s in “test mode”. I think if she just does practice test after practice test up until the next LSAT test date, she’ll definitely improve her score. Steely Dan, Thank you. I’ll definitely pass all this on to her. I know she has her mind set on law school. She’s been talking about going forever. UMKC isn’t too expensive really, so that helps out greatly. And one of her aunts runs a law firm in Overland Park. I think she should be good on finding a job. But I keep telling her what if you don’t get into to UMKC, and what if your aunts firm isn’t around in 3-4 years? By the way, what’s URM?
Steely Dan makes a lot of good points. I was unfortunately involved in law school applications this year. You need to be aware that law schools use GPA/LSAT formulas when deciding who to admit. If you do not fall into their score range, your chances of being admitted are very low. On the bright side, it is absolutely possible for someone to improve their LSAT score dramatically by doing shitloads of practice exams. If your gf is applying for 2011 admissions, there is still a lot of time to take the LSAT again in 2010. Even if the law schools average the scores, she only needs a second score in the low 160s to get into the range for the schools she is applying to. Good luck.
Steely Dan Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > > feel free to shoot me a private message anytime. Is this possible?!
NYCAnalyst86 Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Steely Dan Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- > ----- > > > > feel free to shoot me a private message > anytime. > > > Is this possible?! LOL, I guess not man. I must be use to other board formats!
Best advice for her is to retake, and buy The PowerScore LSAT Bible Trilogy. The LSAT is one of the most learnable exams. Tell her to check out www.top-law-schools.com, a great source for LSAT and Law School in general.
KevinSTL Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Thanks everyone for chiming in. I talked with her > a bunch last night, and we decided to retake. She > has plenty of time, and if she can improve her > score she can increase her chances significantly > of getting into a law school of her choice. Not to > mention potential scholarship opportunities if she > can really boost her score. > > Unfortunately she did put a decent amount of time > studying for it in the first place, but I feel > like there is some room for improvement. One thing > is the night before she stayed at my place, which > is probably not the best idea because only she’s > in “test mode”. I think if she just does practice > test after practice test up until the next LSAT > test date, she’ll definitely improve her score. > > Steely Dan, Thank you. I’ll definitely pass all > this on to her. I know she has her mind set on law > school. She’s been talking about going forever. > UMKC isn’t too expensive really, so that helps out > greatly. And one of her aunts runs a law firm in > Overland Park. I think she should be good on > finding a job. But I keep telling her what if you > don’t get into to UMKC, and what if your aunts > firm isn’t around in 3-4 years? > > By the way, what’s URM? If she hasn’t, tell her to purchase ASAP the Powerscore Logical Reasoning Bible and the Powerscore Logic Games Bible. Both of those are TREMENDOUS aids in studying for the lsat and should help a lot. www.powerscore.com I just checked some figures over at the American Bar Association website for UMKC. Tuition alone is $14,000 a year. Times 3 that $52,000 for the degree plus living expeses during the year, plus potential summer expenses, plus a loan while you study for the bar. So you’re EASILY talking about $75,000 in total debt to get a JD from a state school. Meanwhile, think about what would happen if you worked an entry level job starting at $40k a year with a 3% annual raise each year for the same time frame. A much, much, much different story. You said her aunt runs a firm over in Overland Park. That’s great. I assume she’s a partner with her name on the door. Has she promised your girlfriend a job? Not just hinted at it but come right out at said it? Because otherwise she may find herself in a very awkward position in a couple of years. How does your girlfriend know for certain that her aunt will help her get a job? I’m writing such a long response because I think for a lot of people law school is really a mistake, an expensive, soul crushing mistake. Your girlfriend is in a position right now where she needs to act carefully otherwise she could wind up really hating life in a few years due to some poor decision making on her part. Oh, and “URM” means “under-represented minority” aka Black or Hispanic. Schools seem to have lower standards for students that fall into those categories. It’s affirmative action.
I’d say you have about a 25% chance getting into a school with an LSAT below their 25% percentile. Roughly speaking. (I know it doesn’t really work out that way, just wanted to point out that obviously it is possible to get into a school with a score below their expected range). Second the idea to reconsider law school. People have this idea that it’s a guaranteed path to a comfy 6 figure salary. It aint’. Don’t believe a word the admissions office tells you about “expected salary of grads”. If you’re not at a top school, you may have a tough time getting a job at a law firm. You will then have a tough time getting a job anywhere else, because they know you’ll bolt for a law firm at your first chance. I know several recent law school grads from decent schools who are working for JC Penney. On the sales floor.
Yeah, it can’t be overstated how awful a 150 is. The effective range is 140-180, so basically that’s like getting below a 1000 on your SAT’s. Read this message board thread before you do any more LSAT prep: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3203215 Also, maybe read the Philalawyer blog. Unless her aunt is definitely going to give her a job, as an above poster stated, she is going to need to do really, really well in her law school to get a job. This is because she will most likely be going to a TTT (third tier toilet in law school slang), where only maybe the top 10% get actual law jobs that will allow them to pay off their onerous debts. Law as an industry is really prestige obsessed, way more so than even finance, and she’s going to end up at some of the least prestigious schools possible. Also, as the above poster stated, she will have a hard time finding other jobs if she can’t get a law job, because rightly so, the other firms will be concerned about retention. The adage “a law degree is very versatile” is a myth perpetuated by law school admissions officers. The only thing a law degree trains you to do is be a lawyer, and only vaguely so.
I agree with what Steely Dan says. It’s definitely good advice, and he’s a lot more knowledgeable about the process than I am. Hello Mister Walrus, NakedPuts and fluffy have good points as well. I think you know what to advise your girlfriend now! Best of luck.